Any tips on determining holder marks versus possible coin marks?

I'm watching this really nice 67 proof coin on eBay that I really like a lot, in one of the old green PCGS holders. There is a very small nick (scratch) in the lower left obverse and I have downloaded the pic to the FastStone Image viewer on my computer, in which I can lighten/darken the image, etc. I've tried to determine if the nick is on the holder or the coin, and I just can't seem to tell.

Any tips on determining how to somewhat accurately know this? I've guessed right and wrong about this on some eBay coins in the past, but I need to get this right or I will be angry about it. A small nick doesn't always bother me on an unc coin but on a proof 67 it would be unacceptable. I'm not sure or not if PCGS would even grade a proof coin a 67 with a very small nick (scratch) like this on it, so I'm hopeful it is on the holder.

This may sound silly but I don't want to ask the seller about it, because he has got the coin priced lower than I think it should be, and I'd like to try to get a coin I want, at a bargain price, a grand slam in my coin collecting fun.

Of course my fear is that he has the coin priced lower than it should be, because of the nick. The interesting thing is he's got some other coins listed at decent prices as well, which I might buy some of those to flip, and I'm hoping he is just blowing out some coins at near wholesale for some needed quick cash.

Sorry, but I don't want to post the eBay link and possibly one of you bastiges buys it out from under me.

Thanks for the help!

 

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Well I can't say I'd offer much help to your problem but will say without a picture posted..... let alone a link, it will make it much more difficult to get your question answered.

 

Point taken. Maybe I'll fool around with the pic, and see if I can crop just the nick part of the eBay pic.

 

Perfect

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1954-Washin...-Holder-OGH-/161788597299?hash=item25ab5a1433

What the heck, here is the eBay link, I'd rather possibly lose the coin but learn from the great advice on this forum. It's just tough finding what I think is an undipped coin, and in an old PCGS holder. The perfect type of coin I look for in my collection.

Thanks!

 

Well as I said, I can't offer much help to you but there's a few people here I'm sure who can.
That being said, if it is determined that it is on the holder, I know their are waxes or polishes of some sorts that can fix it.

 

I doubt asking the seller would cause them to pull the listing or change the price. Anyhow, it looks like lint on the holder.

 

Coin is sold. Did you buy it?

 

Probably not much help with this proof but you can sometimes tell based on what the mark is in focus with.

 

Yes, I just couldn't resist. I see an old green PCGS holder, undipped coin, coin I want, at a good price...and it's like nectar to a bee.

I just hope the thing is lint on the holder.

 

I have been looking at images for years, and I can never be sure. Its one of the main limitations of images versus coins in hand. In hand in 2 seconds you can tell.

My advice before you bought it would have been to buy it and when you receive it you found out it was on the coin simply return it. Just because a coin is slabbed does not mean the quality of the coin is acceptable to you once you see it in person.

 

I hear ya. I've gotten better at this especially with spots on coins. With the software program I mentioned which is a free download, it has all the brightness, contrast, saturation, etc, settings on there for a decent evaluation. But it's still tough to accurately do. I recently bought a PCGS 64 Indian cent off eBay, and even with the software, I missed seeing a decent size spot on the face of the coin, it sort of blended in with the pic, and with the coin in hand the spot is sadly very noticeable. After this, I've learned even further to adjust the software settings to be able to see spots such as this on future prospective coin purchases.

I hate to agree with GDJMSP, but the more I look at the pic, the more it does appear that the mark might be on the coin, but I'm still not 100% sure. I've never returned an eBay purchase, and I probably won't return this one even with the mark if it's on there, but perhaps I should reconsider that.

Frankly, and I know it's an old holder from many years ago, and the grading standards at PCGS have evolved somewhat, but it would be very disappointing that PCGS would give a 67 grade to a modern proof coin with a nick such as this on it. But hopefully it's just some lint, and my respect for PCGS will be sustained.

 

Point understood...but we don't have much else do we? I'm just getting into "seriously" collecting high grade coins, and I have much to learn about that. But I remember what coin collecting life was like before the grading companies came into existence - it's better now, but it still needs much improvement.

If a better grading company came along that wouldn't grade dipped coins unless it stated that the coin was dipped, and would explain on the header any flaws with a coin rather than have a buyer get the coin and be unpleasantly surprised, I would prefer that grading company in a split second.

I'm not sure why a better grading company hasn't happened as of yet versus what is out there now. I guess the selling price of the service would be too high? That being said, for coins selling over a certain value, I believe a superior grading service would be worth some extra cost.

 

I hear you sir, but a couple of points.

1. No one knows, or could possibly know, if a coin was dipped properly. The only proof of dipping would be from improper dipping or dipping more than once. If you say, "improper dipping", then TPG's try to not grade them at all, though I notice they give 18th century coins a dramatic break in the regard.

2. Overall, I would say to buy coins in hand and grade them yourself. Do not be afraid of returning a coin that is not to your satisfaction in hand, regardless of what a TPG said about it. A TPG slab is not much different to me than a CNG or other respected dealers flip. You get some comfort to expect a good coin, but the bottom line will always be what the coin looks like in hand. A good dealer will understand this.

 

+1

 

Perhaps the biggest shock I've ever gotten, many years ago, from learning about TPG's is that they grade dipped coins. I almost didn't believe it when I first heard it, because anyone can spin it any way they want, but to me a dipped coin is a cleaned coin. Yes, there are of course many degrees of cleaning, but it's a cleaned coin just the same. After learning about that, nothing about TPG's shocks me that much any longer as far as assigned grades they give. Overall though with their grading consistency considering the wear or the strike of a coin, the reputable graders basically do a fine job with that.

My feeling with TPG's is their main importance in the marketplace is authentication, especially in this era, and it's getting worse, of higher and higher quality Chinese fakes. I've also been buying Morgan dollars, preferably 64's and 65's, and authenticating the coin in a reputable TPG slab is a must for me. Then I view the coin to see if it appeals to me. My favorites are those graded prooflike Morgans - love 'em...especially because I think most of them are probably not dipped, and they are beautiful!

 

They do not grade dipped coins, they grade only coins they cannot tell have been cleaned/dipped.