Dishonest Seller

Found out that the seller flintlock_coin_bullion is not an honest seller. I bought a medal from him that turned out to be a copy. Sent the medal back and received a refund. He has though relisted the medal at almost the same price I paid for it. The main thing though is that in the new listing he does not say a thing about it being a copy. I gave him a chance to do the right thing; told him the medal was a copy. Now I will do what I can to at least warn other people to stay away from this seller.

 

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How about a link?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1937-Karl-G...ronze-Medal-/381371627279?hash=item58cb85370f

 

Dang!! You have deep pockets! Hey can you tell me why or what told you it's a copy? I'm not doubting you, cause I know that you know your stuff from numissociety.com. I'm just trying to learn.

 

First of all this is not a normal purchase for me. I found the correct weight on the ANS website and found this medal weighed much more than the real medals. Also, when I tried to remove the verdi gris, I found a different metal (some kind of white metal) under the bronze. Found that this medal was made in a mold, so I could not use the features that show it is a molded medal as a determining factor.

 

Yeah, I can see what looks like different metal under the "U" in Hinderburg, at least that's what it looks like. Also, the area under the word Hindenburg that looks kinda like a lamination error is highly questionable. Interesting, I'm gonna report that dirty dog. I appreciate the heads up.

 

I don't know much about reproductions; how did you know it was a copy? Do you think the seller didn't believe you by chance?

 

As I replied before the weight was at least 20 grams off and I saw a different metal under the Brass. This is listed in ANS as being around 220 grams, and this medal weighed around 240 grams. In ANS it is listed as a bronze medal not a plated medal. I told the seller what I have said here. He seemed to believe me. I got no response from him that indicated he did not believe me.

 

Just the weight being off that much is enough but bigger than that is it's listed as a bronze medal and not a plated aluminum. How rare is this medal, I know it's supposed to be a Karl Goetz?

 

ANS does list a bronze medal by Goetz that looks the same. I tried to find it outside of ANS, but did not see many. Considering that it was made in 1941, assume many were lost or looted during the war. Do not have an R number, but assume it is rare.

 

No not at all. I know Karl Goetz has many followers for good reason, I can't find that design anywhere.

 

Honestly, I have had a few buyers say they think coins bought from me are fake. If I disagree, I relist. If they have proof (ngc or pcgs said so), I do not relist. It's hard to just take anyones word for it.

 

Truly a rare medal, here's a pic off a website just to check out;.

http://www.medals4trade.com/collections/displayimage.php?album=1121&pos=335

 

You see the dark spots between the T and S on the obverse and the dark spot around the K on the reverse. The medal I had had verdi gris in the same spots. How can two medals have verdi gris at the sme spot without one or both being fake.

 

It could be that when these were first given out they were in a special package that made them all touch PVC in the same spot?

 

I"m not saying your wrong as my guess is that your right.
But just because someone told him it's fake doesn't mean it is. Look at the Walton 1913 V nickel. Or that Pewter Colonial Dollar that is not graded.

 

I suggested to the seller that he says that he is not sure the medal is real. He told me that he does not collect medals. He bought a collection from someone who collected zeppelin items. He sells watches and a few medals/coins. At the very least he should not be selling it for $700 if there is any doubt.

 

I would think an honest seller who wasn't sure as to whether he's selling a real medal would have it authenticated by a reputable tpg .

 

And there we have it (and I'm glad someone else brought it up)... While I commend the OP for making the effort to explain his position to the seller, I also assume the OP is a complete unknown to him, and therefore cannot blame him for not simply taking his word for it. This isn't to say that such a claim shouldn't be taken seriously, but just that a seller not jumping when told to do so doesn't automatically mean he's "dishonest". There have been other threads on this very forum when such a claim was made and only later was it discovered that the one pointing the finger was, in fact, also wrong. Put yourself in the seller's shoes... if someone you've never met before and have no idea how much knowledge or experience they may or may not have tells you, after returning, your item is fake, would you simply believe them, and in this case, toss a medal apparently valued in the upper hundreds? A little research may certainly be in order though.

Do understand that I'm not defending the seller's actions as I am not familiar enough with this item to say either way, plus I don't know what, if any, actions were taken by him to confirm or deny the OP's claim. It is just that I am not yet totally convinced he (the seller) agrees and/or knows as an absolute fact that it is indeed fake.

 

I still feel if in doubt , have it authenticated . A seller has the responsibility to know what they are selling .