This coin is in the ACR auction that ends tomorrow and I am interested in it: The estimate is 200 Eur, so with fees would end up being around $264 estimated. I think that is a little low, I have seen similiar ones go in the $300-$400 range. So my questions are twofold. First, is this coin tooled, specifically the laurel wreath and the hair behind/above the ear appear to be strengthened. Again, on the reverse the tops of the legend (ROPT) as well as the clothes on the solder appear to be possible tooled. I ask because it seems like ACR generally does a good job of describing these issues with their coins, and tooling is not listed in this coins description. What are your thoughts? Assuming this coin is not tooled, what do you think is a fair price?
I have no opinion to offer regarding this coin but in general discourage people from posting potential purchases on this and any coin forum. You may generate unwanted competition. Other people on this forum may also be considering that coin and they may not appreciate it either.
To my eye, I agree that there seems to be some light but clear tooling in the fine detail on the obverse just above Trajan's ear (in the laurel wreath and hair -- easier to see in the enlarged version). I tend to doubt that these details would have survived being smoothed down as much as the rest of the high points (cheek, neck) of the obverse. There also seems to be similar enhancement on the reverse in the armor and detail of the left-hand figure. I can't be certain of this, and if it is indeed tooling it's very subtle, so feel free to take this with a grain of salt. Putting that concern aside, this is a very attractive sestertius with an interesting reverse. This is a hard one to resist. By the way, it has not been my experience that auction houses will admit that a coin is tooled unless it's extremely obvious. Last year Heritage sold a Colosseum sestertius whose reverse was EXTREMELY tooled (I saw this coin in person) yet described it as "only minor smoothing in the fields." So don't ever assume that the auction house will admit that a coin is tooled.
+1 I see tooling that would make me bid less but not so objectionable that it will be a concern to at least two bidders that will drive the realization above estimate. I wonder if the coin lacked the tooling we see if it would realize less or, perhaps, more because people who prefer their coins untooled would then bid. I once said, and I stand by this, that I would love to have the Super-Power of being able to follow coins back through time so I could see what happened to them from the moment they dropped from the dies. Then I could see cleaning, tooling, retoning, smuggling and provenance through all the sets of hands that may have touched it in ~2000 years. All the questions that have any possible negative influence would be set aside or brought to the front. Super-Power!
I agree with TIF => I've always considered it to be fairly poor form to post current live auction coins (but good luck, beef, if you do end-up bidding on it) ...
This is a double edged sword. If you draw attention to the coin and one of us decides to go against you on it, bad. If one of us already had seen that coin and was planning to bid (most bid late to avoid drawing attention to the coin), we would now be placed in the position of looking like we were being inappropriate when we really were not, also bad. To be clear, even if you do not intend to bid on a coin, your drawing attention to a coin I might be bidding on can only cost me money (or the coin). The appropriate post on a current auction is when you know (not suspect, maybe) that a coin is fake and you are warning others that the seller is uninformed or a crook.
I agree the laurel wreath is "outlined." The hair over the ear is "strengthened." To me, the rest of the obverse looks untouched. So, the (light) "tooling" is not too obvious, but it does lower the value. Although the coin looks very nice, some people who would like it at first glance would not bid at all as soon as they noticed the tooling.
So just to make sure I understand, it not appropriate to ask questions about a coin that is currently up for auction? If so, how does one go about getting advice before making the purchase? How is this different than asking about a coin being offered at a fixed price? It seems like the same concerns about letting someone else in on the coin and getting it out from under me apply here as well. I understand the potential downsides to myself by drawing attention to the coin and in this case I thought the tradeoff was worthwhile. But is it really inappropriate to other interested people that I posted the coin? Do I have a right to be upset with someone else for posting a coin I am interested in before the auction closes?
It's not wise to ask about a coin that's in a current live auction, you can bring unwanted competition to your bidding. You can always pm your questions to one of the members on the forum.
yes ... ummm, but obviously not a "real" right (but I can't stand it when a coin that I'm watching all of a sudden becomes front-and-center!!) I totally agree with Doug and Aidan (there are ways around shining a light on an auction coin) ... vcoins are a whole different animal (they are up for grabs and sitting ducks) ... clear as mud? hey, there are no rules (just a bit of unwritten etiquette, my friend) ... Ummm curious? (did you end-up bidding-on that beauty and win, or what?)
It's common courtesy NOT to bid on a coin once you've been asked for advice. So you are putting people in a position where they can't bid or if they do they risk the wrong perception
Other people may have a different opinion, but I find it a little more acceptable to ask about coins currently for sale at a fixed price. Some people may feel that it is not appropriate to "screen" any potential purchases though. My reason for this opinion: If a coin is for sale on Vcoins, for instance, anyone can buy it at any time. The price isn't going to change because everyone is suddenly interested. If another forum member was eyeing it and ends up "losing" it because someone else buys it first as a result of seeing it here, well... that losing member could have purchased the coin earlier. You snooze, you lose. Similarly, if you post a fixed price coin for an opinion and someone else here (or a lurker) buys it as result of seeing it on CoinTalk, too bad. That's the risk you elected to take by posting it here. If you were to post a fixed price coin I really wanted but had not already stumbled across, I would have no moral or ethical qualms about buying it. With auction coins the attention may lead to increased price-- great if you are the consignor or auction house, not great if you are the potential buyer. Plus, as Doug pointed out, what if other forum members have also been watching that coin? To get to the meat of what you are asking, it may sound harsh but if you need reassurance from a third party before buying the coin, perhaps you should do more research and learn more about the coin and only then look for one to buy. Or, if the price is in a comfortable risk range, go ahead and buy it and then post it for opinions. You can always try asking for an opinion by private messaging. I've done that. Many of us have done that. Among several of my CoinTalk friends we frequently discuss which coins we are bidding on in upcoming auctions-- by private conversation-- so we don't bid against one another. CoinTalk doesn't have any fixed rules about these things, as far as I'm aware. Other forums have strict rules. On Forvm, for instance you are absolutely not allowed to post your potential purchases with questions about authenticity, value, or quality, for all of the reasons we've discussed here.
Tiff, thanks for taking the considerable time to respond, I appreciate your thoughts. When I first gained interest in ancient coins I was told by multiple people here that if I had questions about potential purchases I could run them by the forum. I assumed, incorrectly, that auction purchases were included in that group.
