Featured Counterfeit Morgans: hands on with a high quality Chinese fake

The counterfeiting has many problems to it. Let's say that the Chinese were bringing in fake $100 bills in the quantity that they're bringing in coins, it would be on the nightly news every night and the government would be tracking it down to a point, which they're not doing with the coins.

If you look on the Chinese websites you can buy these coins from a few dollars to hundreds and it's accessible to anybody with an internet connection and a credit card. Any time you buy one off of their website you're supporting them. Look at ebay now, there's tons of counterfeits. Complain all you want to them and nothing is done. But complain about a fake Gucci bag and yes it will be removed.

The technology is getting there to make the perfect counterfeit. But I really wonder if the Chinese want the perfect counterfeit. At least in mass quantities. Than you would put the collecting hobby in serious jeopardy and their profits. If it becomes well publicized people will stop coming into our hobby and how many will exit? If a perfect counterfeit comes out, in my opinion, it would drop the prices of the genuine coins.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

If the coin depicted in this thread cost $53, I'd be interested to see what a couple hundred collars would get you.

 

A nice slab one

 

These ones (I've whited out any info) Honestly they're pretty easy to tell the real from the fakes. Here's a link to the real one.
http://www.pcgs.com/cert/12458781
http://coins.ha.com/itm/morgan-dollars/1895-s-1-ms62-pcgs-cac/a/1188-4508.s?hdnJumpToLot=1x=0&y=0


And this one is super easy. No way that fake is DMPL


So yea, not even close to perfect but still scary!
And as always I add the note I don't buy these I just look at them for research sake.

 

Numismat? Are you saying that even after being told that this coin was counterfeit, you still would pay market value for it??

Why???

 

this is just jaw dropping. if they are going to do this stuff to us we should stop importing from them and go back to the good old days when everything was American made

 

A counterfeit is not only a numismatic problem for collectors, but also represents a fraud against our legal tender.

 

I suppose an easy way around getting fake coins is to stick to only XF and below coins. No reason for someone to fake a circulated coin, and it'd be too much work for them. They probably haven't thought of counterfeiting some rarer dates in circulated condition (1889CC still goes for a grand circulated).

 

You'd be surprised. They hub fakes from circulated coins all the time. The coins are not actually worn, but look like they are even when they are new. Many people get fooled by this.

 

Yikes!

Here's a question... When fakes get so good that they are completely indiscernible from real coins - what then?

What makes a coin real to begin with? If a "fake" is stuck with the exact same metal composition (or heck, lets say they got their hands on a genuine Mint die) then wouldn't that fake coin become essentially real?

 

About 200 years of circulation and history. Made from American blood and sweat.

 

About 200 years of circulation and history. The heart of the artist who designed the coin. And also the blood and sweat of your ancestors and mine.

 

Intangibles aside, yes.

If, hypothetically, the planchet were perfected and struck with a genuine die, that coin would be indistinguishable from its “legal" U.S. tender counterpart. In my opinion, that’s what’s so disconcerting.

In the end, it obliterates any value associated with the concept of “authenticity,” which is the backbone of what collectors pay a premium for.

 

You are technically correct that silver dollars are still legal tender but I think there is a distinction between counterfeiting coins that no longer circulate vs currently circulating coinage. The government has little interest in counterfeit silver dollars because they no longer circulate and their presence has no affect on our monetary system. On the other hand, if large amounts of counterfeit Washington quarters suddenly began arriving from China there would be immediate action taken. On a similar note, if you counterfeit a dollar bill you can expect a knock on your door. On the other hand, counterfeit a past issue, no longer circulating but still legal tender dollar bill, as seen below, and who cares?

 

There are a few other things in play here. For example metal mining processes at various periods in history. Assuming that technology to test trace metals will get cheap enough in the future to warrant its use on a wider basis, you can expect to see a certain trace metal profile on coins struck from metals mined at various periods x various locations. Of course the mining methods can be replicated if one is willing to get sophisticated enough in making fakes, but I don't believe the science will be there to do it well enough for a long time to come.

 

No

 

Do you have any idea why cashiers inspect paper currency? I suggest you "Google" the subject "most counterfeited U.S. currency?" You might also research Frank Bourassa. Also consider the efforts of Americans to sell the inexpensive currency "copies" produced by manufacturers throughout the world, which generally wouldn't have an effect in this country without American "vendors".

The U.S. government maybe is too busy producing its own version of "funny money" to be concerned about the relatively minimal efforts of numerous others through-out the world. The U.S. governments past response to counterfeits was generation of a new different currency. What an innovative solution!!

I believe POGO may have deduced the problem when he stated "We have met the enemy, and they are us"

JMHO

 

Counterfeiting, deceit, fraud have been part of Chinese business practice for millennium.

"Muddy Waters Research
http://www.muddywatersresearch.com

Muddy Waters developed a successful business model shorting Chinese companies.

"The Chinese have an old proverb, “浑水摸鱼” (muddy waters make it easy to catch fish). In other words, opacity creates opportunities to make money. This way of thinking has unfortunately become endemic in global capital markets."

 

I don't see how your post is a response to my post, but okay. And, instead of asking me (or anyone) to Google something or to research something, why not just say what you have to say? Speak your own mind.

 

"Also consider the efforts of Americans to sell the inexpensive currency "copies" produced by manufacturers throughout the world, which generally wouldn't have an effect in this country without American "vendors."

I don't understand your statement.