Featured Counterfeit Morgans: hands on with a high quality Chinese fake

I wouldn't doubt it one bit. I know there are some sellers on feebay who only care about the almighty dollar and buy and sell counterfeits regularly. An American putting the screws to a fellow American, that's insane!! Those are the people who need to get a good dagger to the posterior.

 

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I hear you, that's why I don't buy Morgans anymore. It's too easy to buy a fake. Even in slabs, y'all know about that tho.

 

The coins from China is a problem but the fake Medicine are a real killer to every one

 

They sure did a bang up job on this one,eh?I don't see any of the "normal"defects expected. Even the dentils/reeding looks legit to me,ouch!

 

Weakness on the eagle's breast on the reverse and hair above the ear on the obverse is entirely normal. I can't see anything that indicates this coin is fake.

 

I guess the big question is... is the OP correct in attributing this coin as fake?

We are told not to ask questions about how the coin was acquired, attributed or reported, etc.

I am not convinced.

 

The breast feathers caught my eye as well, so I looked it up. One variety of the 79-CC is that of the rounded off breast feathers on the reverse. It’s deceiving in that it looks worn, but that’s the strike produced from the original die.

From PCGS’s website:

Here’s a MS65+ pictured on PCGS’s coinfacts:

 

The coin is fake.

I wanted to avoid talking about its acquisition in order to prevent promoting the product being hawked. Attached is a screen shot of the invoice. The link provided is the link to the exact coin and the sellers store. I hope you are convinced.

 

Submit it to NGC and tell us what they think

 

Interesting. The coin you posted looks much better than the one on Ali (that one actually looks fake from seller's photos). But that die chip below the O in ONE matches them.

 

Excellent eye. I didn’t even notice that.

 

Counterfeiting attempts can happen anywhere. However the Chinese are obviously spending many millions of dollars, to have the finest counterfeiting equipment and personnel possible. That's a big difference between some two-bit criminal working out of his basement trying to fool somebody.

 

The owner of Big Tree Mint in Shanghai admitted in a 2-part interview in 2008 with Coin World that he bought his equipment as scrap from the Shanghai (Chinese) Mint when they updated their equipment. Where did the Chinese government get this equipment that eventually ended up in the hands of Big Tree Mint, you might wonder? The US Mint in Philadelphia, that's where! The US donated their old equipment to the Chinese when they built their new mint in Shanghai.

Chris

 

You needn't try to prove that the coin isn't authentic on this site, as I've owned a 90% Silver "set" of Morgan and other U.S. Silver/Gold keys/semi-keys "replicas" that have been acquired from various sources over approximately a decade. I've posted objective information on this site, to generally receive comments that these "replicas" can be easily detected. Generally, Fools are immune to truths, and discount evidence of same.

The coins I acquired were encapsulated by myself, upon delivery, after determining correctness of the key parameters for "copy" detection. The encapsulations have been engraved "copy". Some of these coins have been passed amongst qualified collectors of the respective coin series to receive objective feedback. Objective viewing feedback hasn't disclosed any similar pattern for detection.

Some of the elite specimens were submitted to "Premier" TPG for grading, and were not authenticated as counterfeit.

My average cost was relatively somewhat greater than yours, but as believed for any product of quality distinction, "you get what you pay for". I believe that's the reason many "thrifty" individuals tout/proclaim ease of identification. They probably wouldn't invest to advance their education towards "copy" identification. They've probably only examined "inexpensive" specimens, and haven't yet viewed quality "replicas".

My observation/conclusion towards the quality specimens is that they're too perfect, not having enough "common denominator" faults that would be observed on comparably TPG certified specimens.

My opinion towards generation of foreign produced "quality" replicas is that which I've experienced in first hand interaction with foreign scientists, that they don't intend to "copy" a deficient product. They desire authenticity without faults, as they recognize Americans generally desire economical quality products. I believe this has resulted in Americans generally buying O.U.S. products. It's well documented that there's little of what we purchase that is entirely "Made In America".

JMHO

 

I collect many different types of collectibles, most smaller in size from antiquities to antiques. I recently started collecting coins, so I have to rely heavily on reputable dealers, and the authentication services. I work in the dental field and can tell you that technology with the correct equipment can duplicate every aspect of an authentic coin down to the smallest nick, scratch, wear or even a die crack using a laser scanner and then a laser printer that makes an exact duplicate of the original coin or object out of plastic or porcelain. (in our field) There is an ebay member jmarin that duplicates original 18th and 19th century South American crosses and medals and sells the duplicates honestly as duplicates. Duplication seems to be pretty much mastered. It almost looks to me that identifying an counterfeit coin is going to come down to weight, metal chemistry, color and patina. I do see that the authentication services offer restoration services. I really think that this is good since many applied patinas are usually easily removed.

 

Did you count the reeds ?

 

Yes, you need to prove the coin is authentic. On this site or any site. No one can take anything as face value especially from the people who post here. If you have a fake, that's great. If you want to post it even better. But if you want enlighten us and share this with us, you must give a diagnostic. That is just common sense. As for your fakes that passed the grading services, that would be great to see them on this post.

 

Did you know the coin was fake when you bought it? Or did you purposely pay $53 for a fake coin?

 

The closer I look, the more apparent it becomes that this coin is not authentic. It is literally plagued with counterfeiter's measles. Little casting spots in the fields which a photograph can often hide. These simply would not exist on an authentic coin.

 

Hey Chris, coin minting presses are not the exclusive domain of the US Mint. Literally anybody can buy a coin minting ore metal stamping press. Where do you think they manufacture Chucky Cheese tokens?
Do you suppose that the Franklin Mint bought time on the Philadelphia/Denver Presses?

Hardly. They owned their own equipment and constantly saying that the Chinese counterfeiters and Chinese purchased their presses as surplus US Mint presses just doesn't fly anymore. With enough money, anybody can buy a press. For that matter, the Chinese probably make their own presses anymore.

Besides, a hammer is only as good as the fella using it.