Magnentius portraits

VF double strike.

 

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Grading is such a subjective effort and ancients are obviously graded slightly more leniently (liberally rather than conservatively) than moderns----but I suggest a Fine+ to pushing VF for the type.

But the rule of thumb is that you buy the coin not the grade...

 

Thanks for the feedback. I'll add the coin's weight to the label & for the grade it will state: aVF with strong effects of double strike on both the obverse & reverse legends.

At 24 mm would the proper denomination be "Centenionalis"?

 

http://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=608602

Frankly, I'm not entirely sure...since it is a bit heftier than AE-2's or Centenionalis---and you list it as AE-1?....perhaps the link above will help. The smaller AE-3 and AE-4s are fairly self-evident, but you bring up a question that raises my curiosity as well. Of course, many are simply listed as a Follis at about your weight and diameter.

My best guess is that it can be since the Centenionalis was introduced during the reign of Constantine and by the time of Arcadius it 'sunk into obscurity'--- as one 'expert' phrased it...

 

http://www.acsearch.info/search.htm...1&ot=1&images=1&currency=usd&order=0&company=

According to the match with your coin, it is from Arles and is listed as a centenionalis....and it's helpful to go to Wildwinds and check the RIC listings as well.

 

Grading is very subjective, very true. I think the coin is a solid VF because grading is usually associated with wear. So, that's why I say VF double strike.

 

I am perfectly fine with "aVF with strong effects of double strike on both the obverse & reverse legends." We take ourselves too seriously when we call AE1 and AE2 denominations. I don't care if this example is 24mm. The type is AE2. This one became AE1 diameter by being hit too hard and too often. Bing showed a 20mm one of similar type. These were not made with collars so diameter will vary. The coin before it and after it may well have been normal 22mm coins. I have 24mm AE2's also. They are not rare and look nicer than coins hit with a half hearted swing of the hammer. We have to be careful when we create hard divisions. Many small coins are listed as AE 3/4 because they hover around the 17mm mark but collectors can't cope with the fact that 16mm and 18mm are acceptable for the same coin. Regarding the grade of this coin: I'd give it a Yes +. That means I would like to own it, very much. With no double strike and more clear legends it would be a Yes (I would like to own it anyway).

The word Centenionalis was snagged out of history as a name for a coin but exactly which coins were called that is less than certain. That's why most people use AE2 but we have shown that is less than perfect as well.

...neither is ancient numismatics. (Anyone else watch this week's episode of Star Talk?)

 

Doesn't make any sense to me why they keep using that size scale for coins, but we still use it.

 

Would you rather say 'AE24'? I would but then we'll have to spend all our time explaining to people why we aren't doing it their way.

 

I would rather call the coin AE24 if that's what it is. That's what they do with most coins other than Roman Imperials. I just go with the standard like most people do.

 

Just added a cheap Decentius. Bought because the style was half decent.

Decentius - AE Centenionalis
AE Centenionalis.
Obv:- MAG DECENTIVS NOB CAES, Bareheaded cuirassed bust right, B behind
Rev:- VICT D D N N AVG ET CAES, two Victories standing facing each other, holding between them a wreath inscribed VOT V MVLT X
Minted in Rome (* //RS)
Reference(s) – RIC 217

 

I had to check this to be sure but going with the standard for Romans goes back to 1792 when Eckhel used the AE1...AE4 terms replacing names like Grand, Middle, Petite and Petite quinarius even for coins that we did know the names for. Modern usage abandoned the scale for coins before Diocletian but avoids taking sides on the matter like which coin is meant by Majorina and Centenionalis not to mention follis which really means little more than coin.

A problem with the AE+mm scale is that coins were not struck with collars so the same dies on the same day could make AE20 and AE24 which confuses beginners who measure their coin and can't find it in the book. Of course these variations also mean that there are AE2 types that include specimens big enough to be AE1 or small enough to be AE3 which is similarly confusing. Perhaps it would be nice to make up a fictional name for each of the issues like we did for the antoninianus just to make things easy on collectors but we could never achieve a consensus on the names to use. Most of us just say we can deal with the way it has been since a century or two before we came along and just blame those old guys.

 

The big, browny-green ones and the expensive, thin silver ones is how I usually sort 'em ...

 

You ARE talking about coins, right?

 

Hmmm, I think TIF and Pish will have something to say about that!!