I came across this auction shortly before it was scheduled to end: LARGE LOT OF SILVER COINS, MORGANS, DIMES, HALFS,QUARTERS ECT.. NO RESERVE!!!! It was sitting just a bit above melt at the time -- $23.85 FV of 90%, plus six Morgans; melt for the small stuff was something like $536, and figure $30 each for the Morgan premium, so $716; it was sitting at $720. I decided to gamble, and won it at the next increment. It arrived today. The dimes were nice, nearly all Mercury, with lots of VF/XF -- nothing worth a premium, but better than the normal run of circulated stuff. Oddly, there was not a single 1942; so much for trying to nab an overdate. Not, as they say, "unsearched". Nothing special in the quarters, and the Morgans were mostly either dipped/cleaned 1921's or heavily circulated older stuff. It was the halves, though, that caught my attention -- specifically, this one black sheep in the unlit corners of the photos: If you squint really really hard at the obverse, it almost looks like it might be a 190... 1? And if you squint really really hard at the reverse, it almost looks like there's a mint-mark. Nothing to gamble big on, but I figured even if it was a harshly-cleaned common date with a splotch instead of a mintmark, that much detail ought to push it comfortably above melt. I asked the seller to make sure it was wrapped separately, just in case, and he obliged with a small zip-lock. Well, I've got it in hand now. I still don't have good photos; I shot these with my phone, and the oblique light I had to use makes the thing look quite a bit worse than it actually does in-hand. These shots make it look abused, but in-hand, it's not that bad -- very darkly toned, and not much luster if any, but certainly not harshly cleaned. It's got a few hits -- that one on the obverse rim around 3:30, one between F and D on the reverse, and a few less noticeable ones -- but overall it looks to me like a solid VF30, maybe even 35. I'll try to get more realistic pictures in the next day or so. This was a bigger chunk than I've been biting off lately, and I was a little miffed that silver started dropping soon after I made the purchase, but now I'm pretty happy with the result.
Okay, I got (somewhat) better shots, with a clad Kennedy in the field as a reference for color and darkness: The obverse shot makes it look "scratchier" than it does in-hand -- judging from the color and near-total lack of luster, I'm guessing it's been cleaned, but not harshly. It looks to me like the details come in around VF30-VF35, based on comparison with images of slabbed stuff that's moved on eBay. What's your opinion? Any chance this thing would actually grade?
I... honestly don't know, so I assume the worst. There are definitely some hairline scratches; I don't know whether they could squeak by under "ordinary wear" on a coin this far from MS. And whenever I see that mottled, brown toning, I sort of assume that it's been badly dipped, but again, I don't have the knowledge or experience to trust my own judgement. I've studied photos, written criteria, and examples for Barber grading, and either the TPGs consistently overgrade them (coins that should be VG10 get F12, coins that should be F12 get VF20 or 25, and so on), or I still don't get it. Or both, of course. But I also see images of coins in "problem-free" slabs that look like they've had harder lives than this one.
dang. its not a high mintage, but not the lowest. 1901 S retails for about 500 dollars in that condition roughly. Nice find!!! I just noticed how that the only barber half dollar with a mintage over 5,000,000 is the 1899. And thats worth 16 retail in G-4. I want some barber halves!
Don't get me wrong, it is an awesome score either way. I only asked about the cleaning, because the first image of it makes me feel it has been. Which of course is a common occurrence. Either way, I would be very pleased.
Oh, I'm pleased, all right. Kinda takes the sting out of paying $730 for $700 worth of silver value, and then watching silver plummet -- silver would have a LONG way to fall to make this a bad deal.
All right, I hauled out the real camera, a makeshift stand, and a better light. I'm mostly happy with these shots -- they pretty accurately reflect both the coin's in-hand appearance and the level of detail it holds. I took it around to a few dealers at the local coin show this morning to see (a) whether it's likely to slab cleanly, and (b) what grade it's likely to get. Dealer 1, a younger guy, was clearly enthusiastic -- said it was a strong XF, and he thought it would slab without problems. Dealer 2, an older guy who specializes in Barbers, said it was a strong VF, and he thought it would slab without problems. Offered $275; I declined. Dealer 3, whom I've dealt with in the past, studied it for a while, and said he thought it probably wouldn't slab -- some hairlines on the obverse, and that pitting on the cheek. "But," he added, "you really can never tell." My take, after studying a lot of photos of slabbed coins, is that this is a technical VF30 or 35, but stands a good chance of making a market XF40 -- most of the VF35 coins I saw looked markedly weaker, and some of the better-date XF40s (and even 45s) looked quite similar to this one. I don't really think it's got the wingtip detail or the headband separation to truly earn an XF, but for this date, NGC or PCGS might well let it slide by. I don't know how they'll react to the obverse surface issues, but again, I've seen worse in non-detail slabs. Now, I just need to decide what to do about submission, which entails finding other coins to submit. Which probably means that it won't happen any time soon. Oh, well, this coin has waited 112 years for its retirement home, I suppose it can wait a little longer...
Awesome Jeff. It looks even better in those latest pics. I'll keep my fingers crossed for an XF, problem free holder for you! If you decide to send it in. Now that I see those images, I would think the pitting would be the stopper, and not an old cleaning. Still awesome!
So, gbroke and Log Potato (in the Barber Photos thread) have expressed the opinion that this coin may not grade cleanly. It would be great if you're both wrong , but I think the sensible thing is to go ahead and send it in -- somewhere. So, my next question: which is better for a coin that's likely to get a details grade -- NGC or PCGS? (Or, for that matter, ANACS, or an even lower-tier grader?) If the coin is likely to go VF Details, would it market better as PCGS "Genuine Env. Damage VF Details", NGC "VF DETAILS ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE", or ANACS "ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE VF35 DETAILS"? Of course, what I'd really like is a clean XF40 slab -- and a pony...
Sorry to dredge up a thread from the past, but I was looking for this one and realized I never linked it to the GTG thread after I submitted the coin to ANACS. There, I fixed it. Still thinking about trying to cross it at some point, but also thinking of putting it up on eBay with a sky-high BIN/BO and seeing what kind of offers come in while I've got the $20 FVF deal in play.
I believe you would have a good chance of getting a VF35/XF40 grade in a problem free holder. I would send it to maybe Anacs or even possibly ICg , seems they are a bit more lenient and even if it didn't go the way you wanted , you wouldn't have so much invested in fees. Plus I like how they add the numerical grade to the details designation. I believe ICg has a 10 coins for 10 each this month , so round ya up a submission.
ANACS is the company that put it in an XF40 Details slab. On this coin, the potential upside is well worth running it past NGC or PCGS a time or two -- but only if there's a reasonable chance it would get a clean grade. Again, I wouldn't trust my own judgement on this, but a Barber specialist who examined it in-hand thought it was likely to grade cleanly. And I've seen some evidence that (a) ANACS is perhaps sometimes less lenient than The Big 2 for declaring cleaned coins, and (b) The Big 2 are sometimes a bit more lenient for key dates.
I was speaking more to icg being lenient to possible problem coins , as I have a couple that I believe may have had an old cleaning that they gave a clean grade. Now that you mention pcgs being a bit easy on better dates , I've seen this several times aswell. Shopping around on eBay I've seen many pcgs semi key coins that are either over graded a bit or will have a scratch or other problem that isn't over looked as often on more common dates. So yeah that may be the place to send her .. I wish ya the best of luck and hope she comes back in a problem free EF 40 slab.
