Reverse proof Roosevelt dime most significant coin of century.

Huh. I'm not really sure how to respond to that.

In one sense, it makes sense to say you're a collector only if you collect, and nothing else. I know a number of people here say they only buy, and never sell. I have the utmost respect for that approach.

At the same time, I don't think even the hardest-core "collectors" would fault someone who "trades up", swapping one or more lower-grade coins for a better example to improve their "collection". Of course, many here advise collectors to buy the coin they want at the beginning, because it will cost them more to upgrade later -- but what happens when, as you learn more, you recognize problems in the coins you bought as a novice?

What about "cherry-pickers", though? People who find a coin that's selling below its actual value, by virtue of their superior knowledge? Are these expert bargain-hunters "moonlighting as a part time dealer" if they occasionally sell the pieces they've picked? If so, so what?

If you admit the legitimacy of cherry-picking, and of occasionally selling cherry-picked examples for a profit -- well, from there, it seems to me a very gradual and soap-covered slope to speculating on an item that probably will be more valuable than its current price, and selling ("flipping") it if you guessed correctly.

TL;DR -- we seem to have very different opinions on this issue, and yours caught me by surprise here. That certainly doesn't make you wrong or me right, but it also, at least so far, isn't shaking my own self-image too much. I'll be following the discussion with great interest, though.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I will just disagree with you. I sold one of my MOD boxes (5 sets) to a large dealer who says he bought around 1,000 of them I believe. His "commitment" is to make money. Not to further the hobby or any hogwash like that. If you think me buying and flipping 10 sets is worse than him buying and flipping 1,000 sets... well, I can't reason with you.

 

That or they're unwelcome competition. Competition is good for the consumer.

 

Not at all. I can't wrap my head around a dealer wanting to snag 1000 of these, either. One dealer? 1.33% of the entire issue? C'mon guys, this is NOT what the mint has in mind when they establish household limits and restricted maximum mintages. Or do you think so?

 

You do know they removed the household limit, letting you buy as many as you want, right?

 

When? Not on Day 1, when I bought mine. It was still there. Maximum of 5.

 

Fascinating (and, for the record, I employ not the slightest hint of sarcasm here). I've been a heavy buyer on eBay for years, and I've sold well into five figures there in the past -- small-time by "true dealer" standards, to be sure, but I have a spotless track record. Does that not mean I'm fulfilling whatever "ethical obligations" you reference here? This isn't a rhetorical question; I'm very interested in understanding exactly what you're trying to say. Maybe it just means that I'm a "dealer" by your definition, albeit not a very successful or disciplined one, rather than a "collector".

I've seen many threads here accusing various parties -- flippers, PM speculators, dealers, the Mint itself -- of vampirism.

Recently, we've had several threads about the long-term prospects for modern issues, and whether buying them is wise or foolish. Given the way dealers are behaving with this issue, with the gold Kennedys, with the Baseball HOF coins, and so forth, I'm truly baffled that you would direct your criticism at collectors-who-flip, while observing the "long term commitment to the hobby" of dealers who provide a willing and seemingly bottomless receptacle for the flippers.

This thread is getting a bit too active for me to keep up with it. I'm going to go try to get a long bike ride in between the rain showers here, but I'll look forward to checking back in this evening.

 

Yeah, that I'm not ok with [skirting the mint limits]. But, if a dealer/speculator/collector buys them on the secondary market, why not? They may make money, they may lose their butt.

 

About a weak after release. I bought more too when they removed the limit. Also, I sell over $100,000 on ebay per year... am I considered a dealer yet, or still just a collector?

 

I'll tell you, the ones that really upset me, the ones that really harm the hobby are the TV hucksters, that outright lie about a coin. They are thieves, apparently accountable to none or maybe they'll get their due someday.

 

Yep, skirting the limits before the limits were removed, harmed many. Those that wanted one for their collection were backordered three months - that isn't fair.

 

Well, to kill two stirds with one bone, so to speak, yes, both @-jeffB, with "well into five figures", and @jwitten with "over $100,000" are truly and unambiguously dealers by any rational standard. And as for SQG's query, I have ZERO problem with anyone doing whatever floats their boat regarding buying from the secondary market to speculate however they like. The monkeying with U.S. Mint established rules is where I draw the line. Why? Because stuff like Rosemont last August happens. People literally got hurt. Two people were taken away in ambulances just while I was watching outside.

The ANA took a lot of crap on these pages over the Rosemont debacle about last year. And very few people blamed the real culprits - the dealers and their flipper minions.

 

Well I wasn't harmed. I got my 1 set super quick.

 

Name one thing in life that is fair

 

Skirting household limits is totally different than flipping. And I bought 2 boxes at 2:30, well after they went on sale, and still received them in time for first strike.

 

Hey! I own about 1% of the mintage of the 2008, 2009 & 2010 satin finish cents. Yeah, go ahead and laugh, but they'll have their day someday.

 

And lets talk about the gold kennedies. I stood in line and picked one up, and sold it for $3,050 at the show to a dealer. Anyone could have done that. And dealers did not prevent anyone from buying as many as they wanted online. So how did us flippers hurt anything? Yes, the market is flooded with them now, but collectors should not be hurt, since they will never sell apparently.

 

Impressive! I was in at 12:01 and all I wanted was one lousy set.

 

Well, yeah, unregulated capitalism isn't fair - that's why we regulate it, to level the playing field, so all can prosper, not just a few. For example, the mint sets household limits.

 

Well, anyone but me. The ANA had me working security so that Chinese line jumpers didn't steal your spot in line. There is one lasting problem with the Kennedy story - overslabbing. OGP is actually kind of hard to find.