Just got the elusive 1916 Barber Half....

Somebody might get cheated by just about anything. But it wouldn't be the fault of the "thing". It would be the fault of the person perpetrating the scam.

 

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Both coins shown are counterfeits, I believe. And neither appears to have been over-struck on anything other than an anonymous smooth blank planchet. Do you have better (higher-resolution) pictures of them ?

The second coin shown, when genuine, was worth a lot more than scrap value 10 years ago.

As stated previously, the identifying "mark" on my over-strikes is the non-existant date. But suppose an "amateur" was offered one and looked it up in the "Red Book" or similar price guide and found that there was no listing for a "1916" Barber Half Dollar. If they would do just a little due diligence and look up "1916 Barber Half Dollar" on Lycos or Google, they would find my product listing in the top ten sites returned from that search.

A couple points to consider:

My first (and by far most successful) over-strike coin was the "1964-D" Peace Dollars which I produced and sold out of in 2010. It has been five years since, and that has not caused a wave of fantasy-date over-strike coins. In fact, there haven't been any produced by anyone else that I know of. Counterfeits of actual-date coins are another matter, however.

What is there to stop Chinese (or other) counterfeiters ? They already have been mass producing counterfeits for the last 10 years at least (long before I ever made a fantasy-date over-strike). I suppose they have no need to make a fantasy-date piece when they can make an actual counterfeit of an existing key-date coin and potentially sell it for a lot more than any fantasy-date coin.

 

Please see my previous post #522 for a reply to this.

 

I've often wondered at that. Why don't you just have someone make you blanks? Why do you find it necessary to destroy existing coinage?

 

I'm new to Coin Talk but not new to internet forums. It doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling to see the moderators actively participating in a contentious debate.

In the preceding ~500 posts there have been personal attacks, straw men, and plenty of completely illogical garbage. There is nothing left to debate here.

Allowing this bloody stump of a thread to continue just promotes negativity that bleeds over into the rest of the forum. It doesn't persuade anyone that they should or should not be buying/manufacturing this stuff. And it doesn't educate newbies on how to spot this stuff circulating in the hobby.

Time to cauterize this wound. Close this thread and lets get back to talking about coins.

 

NeonBlurb, we're talking about coins. This must be the only thread you opened?

 

Fantasy-date over-strikes are only a small part of what I do. Those are always struck over existing coins of the same type. But I tend to use coins that are more worn and often corroded, cleaned, and polished. So the coins I am over-striking are generally not very attractive to collectors prior to the over-strike. I also save any rare dates or varieties. For example, in my last batch of Barber half dollars there was a nice VG 1910 (which is a scarcer date). So I put it in a flip and kept it.

For the majority of my issues (which are original designs) I either buy pre-made blank planchets or I make the planchets myself. I can't buy pre-made octagonal planchets, so I make my own for these:

 

Because then, they wouldn't be "over-strikes". They be true counterfeit coinage where he would be, literally, making coin money instead of "altering" the surfaces of existing coins.

And, its not like the supply is going to run out anytime soon since "junk" silver" does not get melted as much as folks would like to believe. Instead, a majority of it simply passes from dealer to silver buyers then to customers who then sell it back to dealers.

Junk silver circulates as much as regular coins. Just through different channels.

 

Don't anger the premier...

 

Your argument would have more weight IMO opinion if he only struck over or altered the date. When you create new legends, devices, and pretty much everything de novo, you go beyond defacement and mere alteration and have created a new piece even if faint traces of the original contents are visible.

 

According to Dan's argument, once struck a piece always has legal tender status regardless of the degree of mutilation. If I melt 90% junk silver and make my own planchets and strike 1964-D Peace Dollars, are these counterfeits? What if I use generic 90% silver and do the same? How are these materially different? Note that the relevant statutes speak to those who "falsely make" a piece in design or similitude to US coinage. He is not authorized to strike coins with the Peace Dollar inscriptions and devices so it doesn't matter whether the underlying coin is still legal tender or whether they are counterfeits per se. The pieces still run afoul of the statute in my opinion.

P.S. You raise the argument about overstriking coins of the same design, what about his 1964 Franklins over Kennedy 90% coins?

 

Wouldn't that make you an accessory or potential accessory to a crime especially since the injury and potential for abuse are foreseeable? Statistically speaking, it is almost near 100% certain that it will eventually happen.

 

So this, in its entirety, is an original design?

 

Are you simply pounding out the "dents" and "restoring" these coins to like-new condition? No, so this indeed is a poor analogy. Now, were such a thing even possible, were you to take this Mustang, obliterate each of its parts to the point where they would be unrecognizable to the average person, then rebuild or re-form them into an entire new car, exactly mirroring the showroom original other than these wheels, slap Mustang badges on it and call it a Ford (but somehow not a "copy") well, when we try to compare apples to apples, it doesn't make much sense now does it.

 

I think you should focus on the elongated cents. Those seem to really fit in with what you are saying is BAD, BAD, BAD!

 

You are comparing apples and oranges. I don't care for them at all, but I do find them factually and legally distinguishable from Carr's work. The key is that Carr creates new devices, mottos, legends, etc., in the design or resemblance of authentic U.S. coinage that I believe contradicts the statute. Since he loves Andy Warhol so much, he could strike over a Peace Dollar with one of his works on both sides, and it would be legitimate and perfectly legal. No one would care enough to post critical comments even. The same logic applies to elongated cents and hobo nickels. Moreover, and most important, the resulting product hobo nickels and elongated cents look less like original Mint products and not more like the original product or how the original product would look if it still existed.

 

I stand by what I said.

 

Dan struck his 1964 Franklin overstrike on a Franklin dated from 1948-63.

 

Then I stand corrected on that point, and apologize for any error.

@19Lyds , please disregard the question posed on that point. I was mistaken on the 1964 Franklin half dollar host coin. It does not change the rest of my point.

 

Nah...people here REALLY like beating a dead horse.