The Morgan Roll Guy...How Does He Get The Toning?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by keemao, Jun 10, 2015.

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  1. keemao

    keemao Well-Known Member

    This person posts a couple rolls a day it seems..Original Unopened $20 Morgan Rainbow Toned. If these were not put together by whoever it is...and I am sure they are... he would have to have a bank vault full of rolls with the number he posts. I have been watching them just out of curiosity to see how much they sell for. Interestingly, checking his feedback I can NEVER find one feedback that is for one of these rolls. But I look at these and they always have pretty much the same toning on the coins and I wonder how he manages to get so many of these toned like that to put in the rolls. It doesn't look like AT, although I guess it could be. I would just like to see some real feedback on these rolls. Of course, he accepts no returns on rolls of coins, surprise, surprise!!

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Un...407?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20fd56fea7
     
    keemao, Jun 10, 2015
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  3. Brett_in_Sacto

    Brett_in_Sacto Well-Known Member

    I did the same thing, looked for feedback on the rolls. I saw lots of positive feedback on everything BUT the rolls of Morgan dollars. I find that very concerning. I would imagine some sort of feedback negotiation may be taking place?

    Anyone with subversive knowledge of ebay feedback manipulation care to enlighten us?
     
    Brett_in_Sacto, Jun 10, 2015
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  4. harris498

    harris498 Accumulator

    All the listings for the rolls are set for private listings. Feedback is kept private.
     
    harris498, Jun 10, 2015
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  5. kazuma78

    kazuma78 Supporter! Supporter

    kazuma78, Jun 10, 2015
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  6. jwitten

    jwitten Well-Known Member

    His roll auctions are set to private feedback, so when you are looking at this feedback, any of the ones marked private could be for the rolls.
     
    jwitten, Jun 10, 2015
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  7. carboni7e

    carboni7e aka MonsterCoinz

    If that isn't a huge red flag, I don't know what is.
     
    carboni7e, Jun 10, 2015
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    swamp yankee, xCoin-Hoarder'92x and vdbpenny1995 like this.
  8. kazuma78

    kazuma78 Supporter! Supporter

    For some reason my mobile ebay app let's me see what the private listing was for in the fewdback. Here's a screenshot. The fact that the buyer was the same for all rolls in the past makes me even more suspicious.
    Screenshot_2015-06-10-22-28-31.png
     
    kazuma78, Jun 10, 2015
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  9. kazuma78

    kazuma78 Supporter! Supporter

    I feel like after buying something like that your feedback would say more than "item as described fast shipping a+++++" for every roll
     
    kazuma78, Jun 10, 2015
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  10. Blissskr

    Blissskr Well-Known Member

    Probably the seller himself on a shill account. Also making the listing private hides the ability to see bid percentages with the seller for all the other bidders which makes shilling easier.

    It's also pretty easy to buy Ebay feedback on certain 'black hat' type sites and extremely cheap.
     
    Blissskr, Jun 10, 2015
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  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    So called "original" Morgan rolls have been discussed many times in the past. But there a few things that many people are not aware of that come up in those discussions. Like the fact that paper rolls were not even invented until the very late 1800s. And that even after their invention for the most part few if any ever used them until the 1930's - long after Morgans ceased being minted. So calling them "original rolls", well maybe they are and maybe they aren't. I could go buy a bunch of Morgans and roll them up today, and they would be "original rolls" because nobody had ever rolled them up before.

    Now that said, I used to buy rolls of Morgans at the bank back in the early 1960's, so yes rolls of Morgans absolutely did exist. Were they "original" ? Of course they were, that bank was the one who rolled them up. And yeah I know that for a fact because my aunt worked there, and if they didn't have any when I asked, she'd roll one up for me, right in front of my eyes.

    But in today's world, when sellers advertise these as being "original rolls" they are hoping, fervently, that potential buyers will assume they rolled up by some bank while Morgans were still being minted and used in everyday commerce. But is that necessarily the case ? Even though they do everything they can to try and give you that impression.

    Take this one for example - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Un...e&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=6&sd=141689290407&rt=nc

    It sure looks old doesn't it ? But old can be faked, paper rolls that look old could have been made last week. And look at the pictures he provides, like this one -

    [​IMG]


    - it says right on it that paper roll was patented in 1921. But just because the paper roll was patented in 1921, that does not mean the coins were put in it in 1921. They could have been put in it 10-20-maybe 50 or more years later. Maybe last week.

    But were they ? I dunno, I cannot say for certain either way. What I can say for certain is this - something is rotten Denmark ! Why ? Well look at that picture. In the bottom left it has $25 printed on it. But if you look closely, at the top left of the picture, you can just barely see where it says $20. And here's a better picture of it, also provided by the seller.

    [​IMG]


    Now I don't know about you, but something sure smells to me when I see things like that.
     
    GDJMSP, Jun 10, 2015
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    coinman1234, JPeace$, BadThad and 3 others like this.
  12. derkerlegand

    derkerlegand Well-Known Member

     
    derkerlegand, Jun 10, 2015
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    Silverino, miedbe7 and Rheingold like this.
  13. vdbpenny1995

    vdbpenny1995 Well-Known Member

    Great write up GDJMSP! Learned a lot
     
    vdbpenny1995, Jun 10, 2015
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  14. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    Me too.
     
    eddiespin, Jun 10, 2015
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  15. bdunnse

    bdunnse Who dat?

    That paper roll is/can/was used for several denominations.

    This package contains
    $20 in $1

    or

    $25 in 50¢

    or

    $10 in 25¢​

    With each combination showing up in the two little windows (surrounded in red and below the words "This package contains"). The diameter of the coins would determine which "combination" showed up in the two little windows. And I guess the length varied but the crimping machine took care of that.

    It seems it didn't quite line up for the $20 roll of $1 coins because someone had to tear the edge of the "window" in order to see/show the $20.
     
    bdunnse, Jun 10, 2015
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  16. derkerlegand

    derkerlegand Well-Known Member

    Hmmmm...... are you sure? 50 pennies barely make it across the width, and 50 halves?

    [​IMG]
     
    derkerlegand, Jun 10, 2015
    #15 + Quote Reply
    bdunnse likes this.
  17. bdunnse

    bdunnse Who dat?

    No I am not. Must be $25 in $1 too as an option? In the pictures you can see the $20 in $1 in the windows and also the $10 in 25¢
     
    bdunnse, Jun 10, 2015
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  18. derkerlegand

    derkerlegand Well-Known Member

    I'm mystified by the $25 too.
     
    derkerlegand, Jun 10, 2015
    #17 + Quote Reply
    bdunnse likes this.
  19. OldGoldGuy

    OldGoldGuy Members Only Jacket

    Sooooooooooooo dirty.
     
    OldGoldGuy, Jun 10, 2015
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  20. bkozak33

    bkozak33 Collector

    There really arent many buyers for these rolls. He simply shills the auction up hoping a sucker comes in with a high bid. When it doesnt sell he relist them, or puts new end coins in the roll and takes new picture.
     
    bkozak33, Jun 10, 2015
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  21. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    It most certainly DOES look like AT on the Morgans--the rainbow toning is extremely intense, and not progressive. Classic pattern of "shake and bake" methods--either the sulfur exposure, or the good old baked potato methodology. They are definitely AT.
     
    Morgandude11, Jun 10, 2015
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