Just got the elusive 1916 Barber Half....

Compare these two scenarios:

1)
A manufacturer makes dies for a replica of a US coin. The dies are utilized to strike replicas of an original numismatic item. As struck, the replicas do not have "COPY" on them. But they are marked "COPY" after they are struck, in full accordance with the HPA.

2)
A manufacturer makes dies for a replica of a US coin. But then that manufacturer fails to ever use the dies and no pieces are struck with them.

According you your analysis, scenario 1 is legal but scenario 2 is illegal for the reason that the dies were manufactured and then NOT used.

This is entirely incongruous that one situation is legal when the dies are actually used, but illegal if the dies are not used.

 

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Actually, no Dan. I think both are technically violations of the statute but neither is likely to result in prosecution.

 

a 47 Frankie would be boss Daddy-o!

 

Never heard of her. Sounds like this person stole my name, and didn't even stamp copy on it...

 

This is funny...a counterfeiter reporting on another counterfeiter...

 

So you say that I am a "counterfeiter" ? What is the specific legal ruling that you base that on ?

 

If you're not neither is the other guys whom you reported on.

 

I'm very interested in this Dan. How do you know these weren't struck over Peace Dollars or struck from planchets made from ingots of melted Peace Dollars? As you said, even if completely mutilated, it is still legal tender, right? You have no more basis to call those coins fakes (i.e. counterfeits) than anyone here has to call your coins fakes or counterfeits. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Edited: And if you (or your end users) are allowed to parade your wares around eBay, why shouldn't the Chinese? I think that you are engaging in unfair business and trade practices and are tortiously interfering with other people's business relationships in order to promote your own pieces. Who granted you a monopoly on the fantasy strike industry? And the use of the word "unauthorized" in reference to the knock-offs of your pieces, implies that yours are authorized.

 

No, no, no, Daniel... they are not "fakes, but "art"! You know, kind of like Warhol's Campbell soup cans. They didn't "copy" your designs, just like your Peace, Barber, etc are not (your claim, not mine) copies of the original. Just because they look similar to yours and, perhaps, were being offered as yours, it does not matter one bit. After all, the people, the "artists" that made them cannot control what someone does with them after the time of purchase, right?

 

My Amero coin designs are copyrighted. The Chinese copies of them are a copyright infringement. I can report offending auctions to eBay's intellectual property rights group, and they will cancel the auctions.

The Peace dollar is a different situation. The Peace dollar design is not copyrighted. The Chinese "1964-D" Peace dollars are not made of silver. So they are not over-struck on Peace dollars. They are not struck on reclaimed (melted) 90% silver coins. The only times that I have reported auctions of the Chinese "1964-D" Peace dollars was when the listings were misleading by claiming the piece was one of my over-strikes and/or the listing used one of my copyrighted pictures of my own over-strike.

 

Danny, why don't you just stick to your fantasy land? That's where your talents reside. Kenny had this right when he suggested the Government simply doesn't edited because you're not harming anybody. It doesn't logically follow you're "legal," does it? Of course it doesn't.

Let me give you some sound litigation advice. They're giving you a pass and in the heat of the moment you're making admissions against interest in this thread. edited That's what any litigator with any brains is going to be inclined to tell you.

 

This is ludicrous. What happened to an intelligent discussion of coins here? The debate is obviously moot, as Daniel Carr has his own lawyers, and I am sure he's received appropriate legal advice from professionals, not armchair legal experts. Just cool it with all of the accusations and insults!! I will go back to the original premise of my thread--if you like the coins, buy them!! ( I do). If you don't like the coins, DO NOT buy them. Denigrating them doesn't change anything, and this becomes a public urination contest for collectors (or alleged collectors) to take their best shot at something they don't like. Is this really what we are all here for????????

 

I like Daniel's work and am a satisfied customer. If you do not like his work, don't buy it.

 

Would a legal counsel advise someone to make public claims of "counterfeiting" against a person or company when there is no legal ruling to support that claim ?

 

No, but an attorney would also advise against making risky decisions like trying to get around the HPA and Title 18 statutes with circular arguments or constrained readings of a statute. Assuming, arguendo, that you are correct in what you say, you must admit that their "legality" is far from clear. I cannot envision someone admitted to the bar, albeit someone who could be sued for malpractice, telling you to go ahead and strike your pieces. Any profits you make would far be outweighed by the legal risks and attorney's fees you would be force to expend to defend yourself if someone were to ever pursue you. Even if you win, you cannot say that the other side was acting maliciously and without reason, and under the American Rule, it is very unlikely that you would be reimbursed for your attorney's fees. So would a lawyer advise you to do this and make maybe a $100,000 in profits only to expend much more in attorney's fees and potentially risk civil forfeiture of assets purchased from profits received (if it is pursued forfeiture is a possibility)? For this reason, I question all of those claiming that you have retained competent counsel. Many of the arguments you make like "but everyone else is doing it" also wouldn't be something I would expect an attorney to say. I would expect him or her to know better.

Of course, this is all opinion, but I think it is well grounded in reason and logic.

 

How are these different from the Norfed pieces? Interestingly (and questionably), the Norfed defendant was convicted of counterfeiting when the government alleged that he was making his own currency that looked nothing like U.S. currency. If I recall correctly, there were even odd conspiracy theories that emerged around your Amero currency as alternative currency. Isn't that as equally bizarre as what the Norfed guy did?

 

They're not denominated in dollars, for starters.

 

With all due respect, it is just pitiful how quick you are, when the shoe is on the other foot, to turn against your own reasoning. This continued deflection, if anything, has proven beyond all doubt that what it all boils down to is your willingness to exploit a debatable technicality. Perhaps, if you simply had the decency to give credit where it is due, even if in a circuitous way, you wouldn't need to defend your, ahem, "work" as much as you presently do. Morally, a copyright (in this case) should not matter, nor should it that these men are long dead; their work and contributions are their legacy and they do not deserve to be robbed of it all for your personal gain, just as you've shown you do not wish to be robbed of yours. I am sorry, but the notion that you produce the "overstrikes" only for the benefit of collectors rings sadly hollow. For all sense and purposes, you've done nothing more than steal artistically superior designs, and against all reason and common sense, claim them as your own. Yet, when the designs are yours, watch out... they are not simple copies, or "fantasies" inspired by your own, but fakes even though most are futher away from your originals than the "over-strikes" are of theirs.

 

You can't counterfeit that which never existed.

also, not funny