Just got the elusive 1916 Barber Half....

I just thought of a great idea! Let Rick Harrison buy them! He hates everything! (Just like Mikey in case it flies over someone's head.)

Chris

 

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Rick Harrison did buy one of my "1964-D" over-strike Peace dollars. See the Pawn Stars episode titled "Flying High" (season 8, episode 109).

 

Like a bad movie......why would I want to!

Chris

 

148 responses to my liking and buying a Daniel Carr piece that is consistent with the type of coins that I generally collect. Wow, talk about being out of control, folks. This was merely a "I think this is a nice coin" thread. It became a nasty debate---ah, the wonders of the internet.

 

It is evidence that these fantasy-date over-strike pieces trade in the secondary market with the pertinent facts being known by the parties involved in the transaction. And now the very large audience which saw that episode is also aware of these facts.

I have at least presented some actual evidence.
Your hypothetical scenarios do not constitute evidence.

 

Because you brought it up. What you are looking at is someone making a claim and then citing a reference. I can understand how foreign this concept is to you by your multiple claims with no citations of any type when your "facts" were challenged

Edit- this was posted just after dan's post. Didn't have a chance to see it until after I posted.

 

This thread is a great example of controversial content getting attention...Marketing 101. lol TC

 

Obviously, there are a few people that really dislike the fantasy-date over-strike coins. Other internet discussions about them have followed a similar pattern as that seen here.

But what the "haters" might not realize is that there are knowledgeable people who have a different viewpoint and really want to collect the fantasy-date over-strike coins in the form that I issue them. It is the right of these collectors to decide for themselves what they want to collect, and in what form.

 

Exactly, Daniel. I was ignorant about them before seeing your work, as I concentrated on more "traditionally acceptable" series collecting. This can be very narrow for the collector, and certainly does nothing to enhance horizons. I am glad to have found your work, as it has been a learning experience, and the dozen plus coins that I have bought from you are of extremely high quality as fantasy coins and tokens. To me, I now have learned the importance of the token, and restrike, which is something that I did not concentrate on before. So, not only is your work attractive, it was a learning experience for me, as a long time collector.

 

Practical or impossible? Considering these so-called "fantasy" pieces you've claimed are not a "copy" of the originals, I would think it something you could do if you wished to do so. Let's finally be honest here, dropping the deflection, loopholes, claims to the date itself being your "signature" and look at this for what it really is; a gimmick that has worked well for you. You, contrary to your claims, copied the original design for very good reason. It is a "fantasy" coin so you could have used any design, including one of your own, but chose not to for one simple reason; money. While you have and continue to openly disclose your markers (which is also, and understanably, self-serving) and should be commended for it, this does not change the fact that in its most basic form what you've done, be it for so-called "artistic" reasons or for profit, is copy the work of someone else, and perhaps this is what goes to the very heart of why some view it in a negative light. Popularity does not automatically equal what's right, and no matter how many (likewise self-serving) dealers have purchased them, or how many collectors enjoy them, you're walking a very fine line. Your "overstrikes" may not be counterfeits in the classic sense, but please do not insult the intelligence of non-fans by insisting that they are that far off. A copy by any other name is still... a copy.

 

Respect is a two-way street, sir, so you would be wise not to assume any lack of appreciation is based in ignorance. Just as everyone has the right to collect whatever they wish and have it respected, the same should be afforded to those not wishing to do so without the "hater" nonsense.

My apologies to MD for my part in derailing this thread. Fine pick-up, and I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

 

Round 2.

 

Exactly, but he won't admit it and won't agree to put "COPY" on these pieces. He continues to argue because he is only in it for the money and doesn't care about the hobby.

He can say that he has this follower and that follower, but it still doesn't change the fact that time can dull the memory of people. His "followers" are nothing more than a grain of sand on a stretch of beach when compared to the overall population. Like I said before, we have people who join these forums day after day who know absolutely nothing about coins that were produced a mere 50 years ago. Should we expect that this will be any different 50 years from now? His fake non-coins will be floating around in the marketplace where any con artist can use them for fraudulent means.

Yes, Mr. Carr will say that his non-coins have never been used in that fashion. It's no different than me firing a gun into the air and saying that I have never shot anyone.

Chris

 

Every work of "art" is based on (or influenced by) things that came before it. For example, the Barber "Liberty Head" may have been based on the French Ceres Head of 1849 (shown mirrored for comparison):

And both of these were ultimately influenced by ancient coinage.

Is my over-strike a "copy" if it was made by stamping over an earlier coin of the same design ? Or is it an altered or defaced coin rather than a "copy" ? This aspect is one of the notions that is challenged by my over-strikes. And that is often the purpose of art - to challenge one's perception and beliefs.

I have to admit that I am a "coin nerd". When I think of a coin that I would like myself as a collector, I make some. That is the main motivation. And if other collectors like them and want to buy them, that is an added bonus.

If I really wanted to make more money, I would grow my operation, hire some employees, and produce much larger quantities of things. But I prefer to remain a small one-man operation and treat this more like a hobby rather than a business.

 

I've been a collector since 1970. I enjoy the hobby. If I really wanted to "make more money" I could have clandestinely produced numerous actual counterfeits of known coins and sold them fraudulently for a lot of money. But I haven't, and I won't.

There is, for example, far more information available today about Morgan Dollars (VAMs) than there has ever been. Internet sites such as VAMworld.com are a continual work-in-progress with all the latest information going into them and that information is continually being reviewed and validated. Information about coins is increasing, not decreasing.

It is one thing to not know anything about coins. It is entirely different to actually spend a lot of money on a coin when you know nothing about coins. You keep implying these hypothetical situations. Do you have actual evidence ?

If a "con artist" is intent on pulling off a scam, they will find some coin to do it with. Whether it be an altered date added/removed mint mark, a cleaned/whizzed coin, or an outright counterfeit, the scammer will find some way to do it. The problem is not the coin itself. The problem is the person committing the fraud.

If you intentionally victimize someone by shooting them with a gun, is the gun to blame, or is the shooter to blame ? It sounds like you would blame the gun. I would blame the criminal.

 

Do you insist that it is Smith and Weston's fault if some nefarious character should someday use one of their products to mug some newbie to the big city who wandered down the wrong dark alley one night? Should they have never been allowed to make that weapon in the first place? Or do you instead blame the criminal?

Edit: Looks like Dan answered pretty much the same way while I was typing.

 

What does using an already produced coin have to do with it being called a copy . It is no different If I took a Picasso and copied it . Then you call those that really don't care for your pieces as haters . Well hearing your excuses for everything from why you can't put your initials on them , and because you use real coins to make your copies somehow makes them more legit in your eyes , only made me lose any respect I had for your talent . To me your coins are nothing more than counterfeits of pieces already made .

 

I guess neither of you are able to comprehend my point.

If I shoot a gun into the air enough times, I'm bound to hit someone sooner or later. (Let's use NY City as an example because I don't want you to suggest that I might live above the Arctic Circle.) So, if Mr. Carr continues to produce these non-coins for his followers, sooner or later someone will try to use them to cheat someone.

Just as I wouldn't blame the gun or the bullet, I wouldn't blame the coin press that Mr. Carr uses. I'm sure Mr. Carr would pass the buck and place the blame on the con artist, because it's not his problem, is it?

Chris

 

Mr. Carr isn't copying anything. The coin(s) he over strikes already exist, he just adds a date to it that never existed nor was produced by the mint in any way shape or form. It is altered. Also if one visits his site, you can see his own designs and token/coins he minted himself. I like the quarter series he did, and wish I knew about them beforehand. I think his work is well known enough now, that IF somebody actually thought an over strike was a "real" coin produced by the mint, they would find out quickly it isn't. His Alternate State Quarters are nice, and I wish I could have gotten some. Some are a bit funny. "Nuke Mexico." LOL
http://www.dc-coin.com/alternatestatequarters.aspx

 

So it is no longer acceptable to produce an item that someone might misuse? We would have very few items in the world if we use this brand of logic.