Just got the elusive 1916 Barber Half....

I wish I had a dollar for every time someone here asked, "I just bought this. Did I do okay?"

Chris

 

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Can you honestly say any of us would have learned without having at least one of those moments?

 

And I wish that people would accept the concept of personal responsibility. If one is going to pay X dollars (X equaling whatever amount is financially harmful to that person) for ANY non-necessity of life then it is up to that person to learn at least a minimal amount about what he is buying prior to the purchase. (for example, at least look up what years a particular coin was struck.)

Go ahead and call me heartless if you wish, but it is my opinion that people in general are way too quick to blame others for their own laziness.

 

As others have said, I'm sure Mr. Carr's lawyers have it covered here.

The thing to note, with respect to the word "coin" is that he calls his pieces "fantasy over-struck coins" or "over-struck fantasy coins." That's because that's what they are. They're genuine Barber halves (in this case), over-struck with a new design, which, in this case happens to be that of a Barber half of a date and mint that doesn't exist. That is, "coins" that are fantasy dates.

At least this is my reading and interpretation of what's on his site.

Actually, here are his exact words:

 

I really love these threads with Dan Carr items they are so fun to read.
That being said...never mind

 

@dwhiz, I think you just won the thread.

General question to all who decry these as counterfeit: would it make any difference if the date were 2015 rather than 1916?

 

Especially when there are 1916 Barber dimes and quarters

 

Yes, that is what I am saying.

 

Said this somewhere else too...seems to me that since his coins are essentially altered (i.e. over-struck) legal tender, that they should still be legal tender.

 

Not according to his site...Do not attempt to use these as legal tender. This product is NOT endorsed or approved by the US Mint, US Treasury, or US Government

 

What I do is take a genuine original silver Barber half dollar, clean the tarnish off, and without adding or removing any metal I strike over the coin, thereby defacing it. Defacing of coins (such as "hobo" nickel carving) is legal so long as the defacement isn't for fraudulent purposes. If I were to strike apparent "1916" Barber Half Dollars on anonymous metal blanks, that would be a different situation than striking over an existing Barber half dollar. By striking only on genuine legal-tender Barber silver half dollars, no new apparent legal tender is created. A legal-tender half dollar is consumed for each over-strike that is created. The over-strikes do not change the apparent face value. But I do not, however, claim any legal-tender status for any such over-strikes.

 

The items in question are over-struck on legal-tender Barber silver half dollars. Are they still legal-tender after the over-striking ? My purpose with the above statement from my website is that I am making no claims as to the legal-tender status, and I highly discourage any such attempted use. But this is an academic question since both the issue price and silver content are well above the apparent face value. Anyone who were to hypothetically receive one of these in their change could obtain much more than 50 cents for it in the right venue.

Is a carved "hobo" nickel still legal tender ?

 

A better analogy to what I do is this:
Take a GENUINE Patek Philippe watch. Change something on it such as the color of the face. Then sell it is a modified "Daniel Carr" issue.

Or put a special paint job on a Buick and sell it as "art" Buick.

 

To properly value a coin, one of the first things you need to do is look up the date in a price guide, such as the "Red Book". So then you see no "1916" Barber half dollar listed. An internet search (for example) would quickly show plenty of information such as this thread. All a person need do to properly determine the appropriate market value for such a piece is a minimum of due diligence.

 

Here are a few differences:

Big Tree Mint products:
1) Usually not actual silver.
2) Not struck over genuine coins.
3) Do not have a track record of market value appreciation over time.
4) Produced in China by anonymous workers.
5) Are produced in large unpublicized quantities.
6) Are not announced to the numismatic world as what they are.

Daniel Carr / Moonlight Mint products:
1) & 2) Over-struck on genuine US coins of the same type - so the silver content is the same as the original host coins.
3) Have a demonstrated price appreciation history.
4) Produced in the USA by a known artist, using a US Denver Mint surplus coin press.
5) Are produced in relatively small quantities and all mintage statistics are published.
6) Identification diagnostics and origins are clearly published.

 

Andy Warhol once painted an enlarged "copy" of a Campbell's Soup can label.
Now that iconic painting is worth many millions of dollars.
Think about why that is.

 

I never said that you, yourself, have claimed any legal tender status, but you know as well as I that there are a lot of less-than-honest sellers on SleazeBay who would jump all over these to take advantage of an uneducated public. Don't you feel any ethical responsibility for these people? Or, should we urge a change in the Hobby Protection Act that requires every collector to pass a "numismatic literacy exam" before they buy anything?

Thanks for responding, Daniel.

Chris

 

As I inferred in my previous response to you, aren't you assuming that every buyer has the requisite intelligence to prevent the fraudulent sale of these? Or, is this one of those "caveat emptor" loopholes? Tough toenails! Who cares about the health of the hobby!

Thanks for responding, Daniel.

Chris

 

Yes, there are distinct differences, but you have neglected to mention the one glaring similarity.......both your fantasy pieces and the fake pieces produced at Big Tree Mint have the ability to mislead consumers and collectors.

By the way, the fact that your fantasy pieces are made on a surplus press from the Denver Mint is meaningless because the counterfeit coins from the Big Tree Mint are made on refurbished presses from the Philadelphia Mint. Source: See the 2-part Coin World interview with "Jingjuashei" in 2008.

Thanks for responding, Daniel.

Chris

 

Just out of curiosity Chris, how do you feel about the sale of contemporary counterfeits to people interested in them and know they are not genuine?