MS70 collectors, get ready for a beat down

So I was just reading an article in the latest Numismatist. In there, the authors were laying the foundation for how they believe the TPG's will be moving "beyond" the MS70 designation. They believe MS70 will some day soon be viewed as quaintly as today we view the MS60 grade, in other words no coins will be graded MS70 anymore, as they will be 71, 72, etc.

My first thought is what of all of these people who have spent their money on MS70 plastic. All of the sudden they will need to send these in to be regraded. I am sure this will exactly be the point in the eyes of the TPGs, but what of all of these "registry set" people who need to be the best? All of the sudden they will have to spend a ton on the new graded coins assuming their current 70's do not regrade as the new highest grade.

Net net, might it be a good time to scour over MS70's and cherrypick the best coins from amongst them? Maybe. Might is be a good time to look at all of your 70's and sell inferior examples while they are still designated as "the best"? I sure think it would. Sounds like actually looking at your coins and grading for yourself might be useful again for a while.

 

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I think that horse has already left the barn. The TPGs are wed to 70.

 

Well if I was the TPG's or a major influential shareholder of such; I would spend countless dollars and time pushing for a new say '100' point scale. What better way to increase business than regrade the very coins that your company has already graded once or more and keep collecting those grading fees each time. I'm sure when the '100' point scale well goes dry they will introduced decimal place 100 point scale grading and so on.

 

But when you submit your old-slab 70 coins for regrading, they'll give you a 50% ($50) discount on the normal charge for eView(TM) electron-microscope surface imaging!

 

Glad I don't collect graded coins. My only use for TPG's is authentication.

 

Personally I don't believe there will be a move beyond the MS70 designation. It is wishful thinking at best.

 

It doesn't matter PR/MS70 or PR/MS100 b/c there are no buyers for these coins, just a modern coin hype. I said it many times here that it is a one way street.

 

It will never fly. Has been discussed on several forums in the past week to 10 days. Talking about something, and asking companies and dealers and collectors to change a system that has been a fundamental part of the hobby for so long is not feasible. Just between NGC and PCGS, more than 60 million coins have been graded with the 70 point system.

Just my opinion.

 

its cool, they would just have to redo 60 million(s) for free IMO

 

Why is that? They sure didn't regrade for free the other times they fundamentally changed their grading systems. Why do you believe they would this time?

Its kind of the point. Once they grade nearly everything to grade, they can simply change how they grade and force all coins to be regraded, (for a fee of course). That is pretty much their game plan and profit model.

 

Come on! When did they change their fundamental grading score in the past? As far as I know it has been the same 70 point system since PCGS and NGC started in 1986 and 1987, respectively (and long before that by dealers).

Sure, they have added a few bells and whistles like the "star" (NGC) and the "plus +" (NGC and PCGS), but they haven't moved the target with regard to the ultimate grade of 70.

I think a move to a non-70 point scale at this point would be business suicide for these companies, and I think they know it. I think you're being a touch melodramatic here...I mean, I also find the TPGs a bit greedy, but you apparently already know their long term evil plans?

 

I think if this were to occur that I would finally walk away from slabbed coins altogether. If the ceiling can just be scaled up simply to generate more submissions for grading services, then there's no longer a baseline of integrity and I would rather not waste extra money without adding any real value.

 

Please show me a coin in the past few years graded MS60, which used to be a relatively common grade. Please explain to me why people spent 15 years buying up old slabs to get them regraded. What about 70's? They NEVER gave them out, (and in fact told the hobby when they started they viewed it as a theoretical grade, not one that would ever be given out), and now a huge percentage of their business model is cranking out HSN fluff.

To say there has been no intentional changes done by slabbing companies over the years is immensely naïve IMHO. My two points I believe are still valid:

1. It might be worth cherrypicking 70's and picking up the very best you can find,
2. It probably is worth going through any 70's you own and selling any that appear to be of lesser quality than others.

Those two points would be very valuable if any higher grades ever came out, and even if they don't, does it really hurt to try to have better coins regardless of what TPG's might say about them?

 

If it's not broken don't fix it.

 

A change in grading standards is not the same as a change in a grading system.

I understand you are extremely negative with regard to TPGs, but you are being extremely dramatic here.

Different levels of "perfect" is a completely silly concept. As I already said once, any attempt to expand beyond MS70 would be business suicide for these companies...so I would be VERY surprised if they bought into the one-off musings in the Numismatist article.

 

Ok, exact same scenario. They come out with a 70+ or 70* designation. Has one word that I said change? No. Every single thing I said that could happen and what you can do to prepare yourself for would be true, and the TPG can still with a straight face say MS70 is the highest grade, yet tens of thousands of coins "only" grading 70 would flood into TPGs to be regraded.

Please correct my error.

 

How can you grade a MS 70 since it is a perfect coin to beyond. I can see if that MS 70 have a better look or tone color to get a premium on top of the MS 70, but go beyond is getting too far in grading. Just to make the coin worth or value more is dumb. I do see a lot of the modern coins get that grade so maybe the price for the coin s/b lower than the higher end and low grades.

 

@medoraman Have you ever heard, "buy the coin not the holder"? Do you really think it is a good idea to cherrypick MS-70s, just so when the grading scale increases it will be worth more? The coin will be the exact same even with the new grading scale!

Even if this were to happen, it would just be a greedy and pointless move by the TPGs.

 

Sir, back in the day there were no such things as MS64. So coins were either 63 or 65. Was it a dumb move back then to cherrypick the better 63's so when they came out with 64's the coin would upgrade? Same thing with MS66 grade.

"Buy the coin not the holder"? I have been on here over 5 years preaching that. Everyone who likes slabbed coins know I feel that way. The entirety of my post was to point out to modern collectors they aren't "safe" just because they own MS70 coins. The TPGs will find a way to differentiate these coins, and make you resubmit in order to get whatever it is that they term "better". Do I necessarily think cherrypicking better 70's is something I would do? Heck no, but I think smart money who likes modern coins should consider it. If I owned modern 70's would I be nervous enough to go through every one and get rid of any inferior 70's I owned? Heck yeah I would.

I am the oddball. I collect coins for what they are, what their history is. I truly do not give one bit what any other person on earth thinks of my coins. So I have the luxury of collecting what pleases me without the fear of future price performance.

 

1. that is easy to do. Go and buy modern coins in ogp.

2. I was never stupid enough to buy any coin in a 70.

3. 70 collectors already got their beat down. They just don't find out about it until they sell.