ALUMINUM PENNY 1974 vs. NON-COPPER PENNY 1972-Denver Mint

The cost is 250.00 for metal identification; then the grading, insurance and shipping, it was estimated on the form to cost me around 450.00...but this could change depending on other factors...(I called to be assisted by PCGS to complete the submission form, and the girl gave me the costs, but stated the total could change slightly.) She told me when they are finished, I will be notified of the actual cost.

I feel bad too about the cost. However, that is the only way to have definitive answers. We are not wealthy, not even close. We gave up a lot to have this one coin sent in...but everyone said that was the only way to be certain. Thank you for helping with all the information.

 

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Thank you, you are very kind.

 

Wow I didn't realize that the tpg was quoting you 250! That is crazy.

Makes me wonder this, and hopefully someone can chime in:

Say I have a coin not unlike the topic coin shared by @girldly, and I'm sure one way or the other of the metal content even though it is "off metal" so I name that metal when requesting it be noted on the label.
I do not request an analysis of composition, as I know this without doubt.

Must the analysis be paid for if the only purpose it serves is to satisfy the company? I mean, if they do it on their own to confirm my assertion isn't that just in their own best interest?

I assume even if a person submitted such a coin with a print out of an independent analysis it still couldn't be given credence since a person could still analyze something and send that analysis along with a coin in order to deceive.

 

@girldly, better advice would have been to contact a reputable attributor like James Wiles, Ken Potter, or Mike Diamond, to name a few.

This is the first step I would take with a coin I believed could be an error. I have sent coins to Mr Diamond in the past for attribution. It was a great first experience and I shared it here with the forum from discovery (or purchase, in the case of one) to the determinations made.

 

If they put info on the label, I believe they have to guarantee its accuracy, which they could not do unless they analyzed it. I think it is a fair cost for an in depth non-destructive analysis. Now if they just judge it as plated by appearance, I assume they would just grade it detail, slab it, and return any excess due to not doing an analysis, but it is in PCGS domain.

 

I'm just thinking, they must have the ability to perform these analyses in-house. I see the equipment is very spendy.
I still think that 250 is exorbitant.

I can understand a REASONABLE fee, if that service is requested. But, to use their in-house equipment in order to confirm an assertion, in the interest of the guarantee of the company and not at the request of the owner, that does not warrant a service fee IMHO.

 

I never sent in coins to the top two, only the two second tier ones companies. A better option might have been with icg, as they attribute for free from what I remember. All I think you'd do is declare the coin "unknown error" or something and it's up to them to declare what it is? Right? I don't understand the metal analysis part. I never suggested you should do that, by the way. I said it might be wise to send it in and get their expert declaration. Isn't there an attribution fee or something? Sorry, I'm pretty ignorant of TPGs, but the 400 or 500 amount you quoted is way too much in my opinion.

 

I just read through the first page of posts and very early you said that you and your husband decided to send it in (not sure to who in these first remarks), and this was going off mostly entirely from that dealer. Looking back at the pic and based on how much you paid, it definitely seems premature - at least to my thinking - to have sent in in so fast. Someone also said it would cost around 65 dollars to have it sent in with a dealer's submissions, which is more in line with my thinking about the cost. In any case, if the coin was only plated or tossed in some hot ashes to tone it gray I think the dealer - a NGC certified dealer submitter per OP - is due for some blame and owes her some answers. I still want to think that he helped her in an ethical manner and that the coin will turn out to be an anomalous Mint coin

 

Wow, This thread sure spurred interest, and that is why I chimed in and look forward to checking this site. Another forum I like is currently sadly too quiet.

I received a copper colored 1964 bronze colored nickel from an elderly friend who had saved it in a sock for 40 years. I weighed it and examined it closely and thought I had an off metal coin. Then I remembered my high school chemistry class when we plated a coin with copper. So I examined the coin very carefully under a microscope and saw a tiny electrical contact spot which was still silver. It was not visible even under 10 power, but clear at 200 power. I weighed it on a lab scale and it weighed the same as a regular 1964 nickel.

Despite my personal experience with plated coins and my knowledge of coins and metals they were made from, I took the time to investigate possible explanations to help with this post. First, a copper penny would not exhibit magnetic properties even if it were plated with nickel, which in pure form is magnetic. So, it had to either be pure nickel, steel or plated steel, and there are nickel plated steel coins of this size used in other countries that have used the Denver Mint. This could not be a plated copper penny unless it was plated with steel, which would be very unlikely and probably would have rusted in that milk carton. I discovered that the Denver Mint did produce foreign coins in 1972 and discovered a list of countries that used U.S. Mints. I discovered that some of the coins for the countries that were listed were 19 mm in diameter and were of a magnetic metal like pure nickel or nickel plated steel. I could not find out what specific foreign coins were minted by the Denver Mint in 1972, likely because the receiving countries do not like to advertise that they don't mint their own coins, and likely for proprietary reasons, since the U.S. mints were at that time competing with other world mints for the ability to mint coins for profit.

Coin collecting for me has always been about learning. A coin is just a piece of metal if you don't know and understand the history behind it. I've recently cataloged over 6000 coins for a friend who inherited them. They were from virtually every country in existence during the middle of the last century and dating back to 650 AD. Though I've been collecting for almost 60 years, I'm still learning. I've discovered some unique rarities like coins struck over other coins including coins struck over coins from other countries. But I'm no expert, so had I found that curious penny with magnetic properties and a pewter color, I would have invested in the cost of sending it to PCGS myself. People spend a lot more at casinos with less chance of a return and no chance at all of learning from it. So, I applaud girldly for her efforts to find this forum, and seek some answers. And, I am also dismayed by the negativity expressed by one individual who seems quick to draw conclusions with insufficient information about the coin and to characterize people he has never met. I am also a political person, though, so am used to such negativity and strong opinions based on limited information. It just doesn't seem appropriate for a coin forum IMHO.

 

I still contend there are many more frugal ways to determine the composition than PCGS.

 

Very well said. Thanks

 

I will say it again---when this coin comes back as nothing---contact PCGS and ask to not insure the worthless penny. I am trying to help save you some money. The amount of money you put down was crazy and was an awful decision but again (As I said before) it is spilled milk at this point.

You can scream "woe is me!" till the cows come home but your best bet is to minimize your losses.

I do not need every piece of information to make a judgment. The coin weights 3.11 grams. I trust OP when she said that. That ends the discussion. Over. Done. Coin is nothing special. Not up for debate.

Even if she thought there was a CHANCE it was something shelling out $450 was insane and cannot be defended in any shape way or form.

 

Look at this: http://m.ebay.com/itm/281596360187?nav=SEARCH

Unplated cent certified NGC sold for $100. I wonder what it weighed? Can that be looked up on the NGC site?

 

I searched "( off metal , wrong planchet , struck on )" on eBay's completed listings. If the tpg truly charges that much money for each of those labels (basically), as they would have to in order to guarantee their claims as to what planchet each was struck on (right?), then they are sucking all the profit up from anyone who sends one in to them.

That's a bunch of crap! That's what that is! Bunch of money grubbing jerks! Many people, myself included, search out errors and it's total crap there is such a huge charge to confirm what a submitter may have spelled out to them on their form.

 

I would not pay $450 to have it authenticated, that is about $400 more than it should cost. Something is wrong here.

If you PM me your zip code I can recommend someone that will help you. My web site has 1000's of dealers all over the USA and is searchable by Zip Code.

 

@planman2014 -- dude, you've made your point already.

@girldly, I don't know much about off-metal coins, but I'd guess the odds are with the naysayers here. Plating is easy and common, and off-metal strikes are rare. Having said that, though, pessimism doesn't always win. I got some pretty firm negative feedback on this thread:

1878-P trade dollar (yeah, right...)?

One of our more knowledgeable members thought the coin I posted was a fake. 95% of the time, he'd probably be right. This time, though, luck was on my side.

I, and many others in this thread, will be waiting to hear what you learn about this coin. Please do follow up here, and good luck!

 

http://www.pcgs.com/News/Pcgs-certified-1943-d-Bronze-Cent-Sold-For-17-Million

Reading stories like the 1943 bronze Lincoln Penny that sold for $1.7 million a couple of years ago, certainly inspired people to check their change.

PCGS is indisputably one of the most respected experts in numismatics. Hopefully the local coin dealer didn't charge an exorbitant commission.

It is unlikely this is a counterfeit coin based on its history in her family, so it could either be a high school chemistry class experiment or an off metal mint error. The magnetic property suggests to me it isn't a chemistry class plated penny. I hope girldly posts the results from PCGS.

 

To all who have any interest in this 72D Cent, I thank you for helping me. When I know what PCGS determines, I will post it. I do now wish to stir up anyone to have the site monitor get involved...

Thanks to collectors like you, I will hang in there, and post what my findings are, good or bad. Thanks for the info., I am happy luck was on your side.

 

Thank you, and I will do that.

 

Too late, they have the coin and I am following thru....I thank you for the offer however...