1868 Shield Nickel DD ???

Is this DD for the 1868 Shield Nickel ? Yes the pic is from my scanner and so I hope you are able to see it. Thanks for the help.

 

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Could you point out where you see the DDO?

 

the shield and the leaf.

 

I see nothing

 

I see what you are talking about. I just can't tell what kind of doubling it is. Let me do some research. I don't know this series very well, but I do remember looking through the CPG and seeing similar doubling, I just can't remember on what dates.

 

Nice example of a 1868 rev 67 shield nickel , the doubling is MD. On shields ddo ' s for the most part the cross and annulet are the major pick up points. Looking at all listed 1868 hub IIa the cross and annulet are first and for most listed before the shield and other components are listed.
That said it rules out a ddo as the cross and annulet are not doubled.
It's easy to be fooled by doubling on a shield as I have stated before the nickel/ copper alloy was extremely hard.
Plus thicker making for interesting strikes. Very nice coin.

 

how do you tell that is a 1868 rev 67. Are they different on the reverse ? I don't know much about shield nickel. I purchase a few of them in the past and one is in my 19th century type set. So I know I have about 3 pieces of Shield Nickel. only.

 

On the reverse of '68, the star points toward the S in STATES instead of the E. I'm sure paddy54 can link you to some info. He seems to know the series pretty well. All I know is what I've seen in the CPG.

 

I have seen some MD but the shifting below the cross where the point to the "O" before. Other parts I see that it is MD, but the "O" shift is different. Again I am not arguing if it is or not. I am sure you all are pretty know what you are talking about and I do appreciate for the help. It is just different. Also thanks for you all knowledge about coins it self. Another thing if it is a rev 67 then why didn't NGC noted that ? Thanks again for the info's.

 

To answer this first there are many reverse ' s the reverse as Jay has stated is by star line up as well as broken letters in the text on the rev. To explain it all here would take quite sometime . If you are interested in shields I suggest you consider buying a cherry picker guide to start. Other references can run up price wise. But the plus side is shields are not that expensive and there aren't a big following so finding varieties and collecting them won't break the bank.

 

The annulet when doubled is quite noticeable , I have some very similar to yours . But they are again nice examples of shields and not ddo's.
We aren't arguing we are talking shield nickels. A series that is full varieties and there are more varieties not yet found than already known .
I believe one reason is again not a huge following . But that's cool more for me
As to knowing it all . . I don't just care to share what I do know. I share a passion for these coins having passion and knowing it all are two different things.
As for why it's not noted on the slab . Most TPG'S don't unless you pay them to attribute it. And only one will list new varieties or all variety coins. And it's not NGC- or- PCGS. Of course you will need an expert attribution to have them note it on the slab.

 

Oh BTW an very easy way to identify a reverse of 67 is the broken star point on star # 1 it also points between the OF,
To easily tell if it's an 68 rev 68 look for broken letters. C ,S,D if the C in cents is missing it's tail and the S in cents is broke then for sure it's an 68/68

 

So how does the different with the star pointing to different letters come about ? I thought that die was the whole when the image was printed onto the coin or metal. So how does the way the star pointed to different letters come about. Was this manual printed to have different varieties. I am kinda confuse about this. Sorry.

 

I do have a few of the cherry picker books and looking into buying another one now.

 

They were new reverse dies made from the original design. In 1866 and part of 1867 the reverse had rays.
Latter part of 67 had no rays, and the reverse again redesign in 68. Thus different line ups of stars to letters.

 

I'd have to see better pictures but yes I think it may be a DDO. Everyone has been looking at the annulet and cross, look at the tops of the red stripes. They appear to extend up into the bottom two blue stripes. That is the center of the die and the first point of contact between the hub and the die blank. Make gentle contact there, then reposition and hub again and you can have hub doubling there without doubling appearing on the annulet. (Although it looks like the annulet might have a blue line running through the bottom of it as well.)

There were four different hubs used to make the shield nickels, one with rays between the stars and three without rays. Each of the three without rays had slightly different relationships between the points of the stars and the letters. The first one used in 1867 and 68 has the top star pointing at the right serif of the E in STATES and a star points between and AM in AMERICA. The second hub, used in 1868 only has the top star pointing at the serif of the second S in STATES. The third hub used 1868 through 1883 again has the top star pointing at the right serif of the E, but instead of being between AM this star is now nearly centered under the M.

 

here are images of one of my 1868 DDO's Notice how the annulet and cross is doubled.

 

Also you did notice there is a die crack by the date I think.

Boy there are so much varieties in this series for the Shield Nickel. I need to get some more information for it.

 

Conder101 what is the blue line you are talking about.

 

The horizontal lines in the shield represent the blue portion of the shield (azure). The groups of five vertical lines represent red (gules) and the vertical blank areas represent white. The top line of the blue area should pass below the annulet (ring) but it looks like instead it passes through the bottom of it. the gules should also end at the bottom line of the blue but they appear to run up into them one or two lines.