Milk Spots- Are They Such a Big Deal?

But how can you suggest what causes hazing and what causes milk spots is unrelated? A spot may form from a splash setting on the surface of the coin while a haze with a washy appearance may have been more water and semi dissolved or unable to form in a circular spot like pattern.

 

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I think the unclear terminology used to describe the blemishes on the ASE are creating some confusion here. Whitish spots have developed on coins for various reasons in the past and will continue to do so and in most cases can be removed from the dip. These can be caused by environmental factors, something coming in contact with the coin, gasses, etc. The white spots that develop on an ASE cannot be removed. I'm sure ASEs could still get a white spot from a foreign particle coming in contact with the coin but the specific "milk spots" that PCGS are offering a reward for are different. We need better terminology to describe this. Lots of things can look like "milk spots" but there's a mysterious cause to the spotting on ASEs.

 

Right, there is a lot of confusion and little definition. Without a known cause, how can even PCGS assert expertise over others' results or findings as to what it is or isn't causing it and whether one factor or shape of a spot and its appearance accurately describes the condition or some phase of what we have all come to call, milk spots. What is the PCGS definition of it, does everyone agree to it, and how does the TPG purport it will apply the definition to the consideration the awarding of of their offered reward?

Some suggest others are misdiagnosing or lumping all whitish marks together with one type of spot that has a notorious name, but they have no more of an informed basis to say so than they have a grasp on the remedy or care for the condition. If they have and are not telling, then that pretty much runs counter to their own personal motto of sharing information. There is similar confusion for others to think they can diagnosis from others photos which marks can be dipped away. That's as problematic as "guessing the grade" from photos.

If memory serves (since I can't find the link to a very old thread here, and have since lost track of the original images I took) the image Doug posted, may well have been one which I posted on CT sometime ago when I received very newly minted bullion ASE (early in the year of issue) certified in NGC holders and shared images on this forum to show how even brand new coins developed the spots and made it into high graded (MS69) holders.

 

Well @krispy you and I are in agreement here.

Now I'm just speculating here...but perhaps NGC gave the ASE a 69 because of the spot and thought that even thought it was flawless besides the spot, even being fresh from the Mint. That this spot detracted from the eye appeal.

Me, I collect them raw and I used to be able to get ASEs that were "impaired" for a dollar to a dollar fifty over spot. Those came home with me because I was buying them as bullion and they cost the same as generic rounds. So I have a few that are spotted and I don't mind. I even bought a used Dansco to put them in which only cost five dollars. I'll buy spotted ASEs for a dollar over spot all day!

 

And I'll agree with Jwt. Since I don't believe in grading bullion coins, or at least in paying a premium for them, my interest in identifying and discussing them was more out of curiosity than concern. When I see $25K at stake, I get more curious.

Long ago, I bought a roll of ASE's from a dealer, a friend said they were extra nice, and knowing I was a stacker at heart, suggested I offer to trade 5 of my nice Eagles for 6 crummy scratched or spotted ones, and I put that ad under "barter" on CraigsList, but no one ever took me up on my offer LOL LOL.

 

I like talking about them too. Maybe my descendants will strike it rich with my spotted ASEs after all the other spotted ones are returned to the Mint or melted down! I like talking about them though, it's fun and a good opportunity to learn something. I even bought the ASE book (Kindle edition) by John Mercanti which I enjoyed.

I see nothing wrong with people who want to collect the highest grade they can afford of any coin - be it bullion, tokens, large cents, etc. - just not my cup of tea for the ASE. I do love my ASE collection. They look great in the Dansco and I even have a couple of toners in there. For individuals who are buying the highest grade possible, the .999 fineness silver coin white spots that can't be dipped away and can mysteriously appear present a real problem. The grading companies no longer stand behind their grade regarding the spots and this could pose a significant loss for some collectors. One day that 70 could be a 69 or lower and PCGS/NGC won't have their back.

 

It would be ironic if a perceived eye-sore today somehow blossomed into something coveted and collectible in future collecting generations, were these to somehow be special or develop colors people liked as now many pay top dollar for monster-colorful toning. Kinda the approach to having bullion graded... What if Morgan dollars had been graded instead of just stored in bags? One day they will stop minting the current design of ASE too, and then all of the ones just kept as bullion will potentially be collectible coins. While millions are minted annually, we don't know whether large scale future melts will come to reduce the figures and leave common bullion dates with semi-key dates, etc. Today we can't know it, but we can prepare for many eventualities.

 

This. OP that is an excellent way to destroy the coin. I agree with others that it doesn't sound like milk spots but some sort of residue or haze. Try acetone next time.

 

Let's see some before and afters to back it up.

 

Seems to me that less than $25 G's would buy some spectrometer time to at least identify the chemical content of milk spots, no? Once we know what they are, that seems like half the battle. But what if they're just silver? ¡Caramba!

As to Doug's gripe about the "link the pics" crowd, I could not possibly agree more. The essence of wisdom is the ability to aggregate data into knowledge, not establish a stupid link farm. If you doubt what he's saying, read more, study more, hey, even do your own original research once in a while; broaden your world beyond the stupid Internet. Not everything on the Internet is true, and there's far more truth that's never been on the web than has been. Yes, even today. My numismatic library has over fifty linear feet of books, spines out, and I don't have a good copy stand setup. So not everything I say is linkable either. Deal with it. I read; I don't produce "coin porn".

Some things are just true even if you don't get your requested spoon-fed evidence of them.

/Gets off soapbox, and trips.

Now, why is it I never see milk spots on earlier ASE's and only really on more recent ones?

 

I am still curious whether the absence of copper has anything to do with milk spots.

For the various foreign 0.999 bullion coins, do they have milk spots too?

 

I can't possibly speak to all, and my examples don't have any, but I have seen milk spots on Canadian wildlife, British Brittanias and Australian pieces. I have not yet personally seen any on silver Austrian Philharmonics, but the sample size is smallish.

 

Chlorine in the water used to wash off/clean the coins was one theory I've read.

 

I've seen them on pretty much every coin, including silver eagles, although it is pretty rare on the eagles. Canadian mint is the worst imo.

 

In this case, yes. By all means. You gave no evidence and appear to have nothing in hand to disprove others for that matter. If you did, you might have that reward money and a position from which to assert yourself from. But you haven’t and you know you’re on the milk-spot now.

C'mon now krispy, even if I posted pics then what ? Would you then doubt if I was telling the truth about the pics ?

Funny, that’s what you did to my pics. You not only doubted them, you outright declared them invalid.

I don't just make stuff up and then say it here. There is no reason in the world that I would ever do that, none. What could I possibly gain by saying something ?

No one implied you made anything up, just that you claimed to know something without any justification.

I merely repeat here what I have learned by doing research, reading, and studying.

Sounds like you presume other’s have not researched, read and studied (and even done experiments on milk spots) themselves, and that anything you now suggest that you have done must be superior and correct and furthermore others should just take all your utterances for granted, whether you explained your self or not when commenting. Sure, you’ll say, "no one should take what you say for granted." Guess what, I’m not. So it’s time for you to put up or shut up.

Stop and think for a minute. If what I said about milk spots was not true, then why would PCGS offer 25 grand to anybody who who show them how to remove milk spots without harming the coin ? Simple answer, they wouldn't.

No. You stop and think for a minute what you did and furthermore, what you are now trying to do with this argument, sidetracking this with a conditional what if scenario that’s unrelated to what I’m calling you out on.

You, or anybody else, doesn't want to take my word for something - fine don't.

There it is! I knew it would show up in your post! You’re song and dance in these forums is transparent. We heard this like a broken record from you many times and most of the time you get away with it and you know it works in your favor much of the time because people don’t call you on it for the phooey it is, or just kowtow to your position on the forum.

All I ever do is share knowledge, that's it.

Umm... but you didn’t share anything! And you usually just excuse yourself from going back to dig up references and compose anything from your supposed knowledge. [ Voila! See the comment you made at the end of your post! ]

And unless I am certain about something, then I don't say it. It's just that simple.

Then simply explain why you can tell the difference and diagnosis this from the photos. If you are so certain, it should be simple. Since this is an unresolved issue with coins, I don't think this is going to be so simple as you think.

And if I ever do make a mistake, and yeah I've made them, then I step up and admit it. I have no problem with doing that because my one and only goal is to help others by sharing knowledge.

That’s all good and fine, but you’re stalling when you simply could be explaining or "sharing knowledge".

Anybody, you think milk spots are something else, or what is in the pics above are milk spots, fine. I don't care, I really don't.

Then why comment as you did? You seem to know something, and if you know, then you have knowledge, yet *Gasp!* you are not sharing it!

If you don’t care, then please refrain from such declarations, especially when you can't explain them.

You think you can get them off and not have them come back, that's fine too.

Never said I could. I just shared an image.

And if you can, I'd love to hear about it !

I’m sure you would since you haven’t the solution yourself and have yet to explain how you know one spot from another from a photo of a coin you’ve never seen in hand regarding a condition that lacks explanation and clear definitions.

But all I'm doing is sharing, with anybody who wants to listen, what I have learned from reading a great many articles on the subject written by people who know more than just a little about coins. Anybody doesn't want to take my word for it, go look the articles up yourself and read them.

Spun like a broken record… for the second time in the same post.

But no, I have not saved links to every article I've ever read in the last 20 years. And no, I am not going to go look them up every time somebody doubts my word.

Just admit you were wrong to trounce something when you have nothing to back up your argument. You said if you were wrong you’d admit it. Seems you’re on thin ice and need to live up to your mantras.

 

The final word on the subject:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

 

Possibly, yes. Silver chloride is a "thing" and a pretty chemically stable one at that. I've seen nasty milk spots on ASE's in MS70 top two plastic. That tells me it showed itself only after an interval.