Beware of rainbow toning

You check it. You provide the link. Because BKOZAK33 did this on these forums and these supposedly numerous and plentiful discussions DON'T EXIST.

Is it possible for someone to just link ONE thing showing a teletrade toned only auction? Or do you all just blindly follow GDJMSP? Yall got some brown noses. Should be ashamed of yourselves. We are arguing for your rights, your intelligence, your respect. Unreal.

 

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How do all these blind GDJMSP supporters not see that nobody is ganging up on him. It is simply people calling "bluff" on another of his self stated facts. Wake up folks. You are doing no favor to the hobby being a lemming.

 

When trying to put someone in their place, one should be careful as to not find a place of their own. Should we all be reminded of the work of the now infamous Midnight Minter? All things are possible until proven otherwise.

 

Just simply requesting that "proven" part. Try not to lose sight of that and become confused in the drek.

 

How does one prove a negative? All I have heard so far in this thread (save for incredible anecdotes about the number of toned coins) is that any pattern/example of natural toning can be faithfully and accurately replicated, but we lack the knowledge and ability to do so but you should avoid rainbow toners because of AT concerns just in case because we say so. Those arguments don't sound very convincing to me. Make me one...

 

Should we all just haphazardly buy a rainbow bag toned coin because it was stated to be such in the discription?

 

How are you coming to these conclusions/statements?

 

If you like the coin go for it.

 

The gist of this thread was the OP's warning that all may not be well in Paradise, but those that live there have gone to great links to dispute that. I for one, have an open mind and believe all is possible, and before I would pay a premium for what is stated as an original untouched coin, the assurance that it was just that, would have to be provided. TPG's guarantee their grades in writing, but I have yet to see a written guarantee that the color is completely natural and will pay the difference in premium for one that wasn't.

 

Amazing work GDJMSP. Now, are you big enough to admit that this obscure, isolated finding may not be as common knowledge as you originally implied, and that we are all not ignorant people because we couldn't find this pocket of info?

 

1. Nice with the teletrade. I would have an easier time learning from posters when they post links or evidence. I do appreciate that.

2. Of course there are dealers specializing in toned coins. The real question is the % vs total dealers. How many thousands of dealers are there and how many toned specialists are there. I'll bet less then 1% ratio, sounds familiar like the number of toned to white.

 

"Basic comprehension?" More like, "basic mind-reading." You look again at your reply to what he said on the Red Book and tell me again how one was supposed to discern sarcasm in same without an assist from a telepath.

On that other one with the "doctorate," ah, give him a break, he's still finding his way. You don't want to hurt his feelings, do you?

Oh, and sorry, let the record reflect, too late on those genes...

 

No, and I never stated that someone should.

 

Thank you, and that is your strongest evidence you have presented. As I said, however, Teletrade was notorious for abusing the "rainbow toning" descriptor IMHO. Also see the statistical argument, supra.

 

These two prove that Teletrade did hold some rainbow toned only auctions. However, it does not prove that they were weekly events. For the record, I wasn't collecting rainbow toned coins in 2001, I started in 2002.

These screen shots are not talking about rainbow toned only auctions. Teletrade used a designation (the little rainbow tag) so that you could easily find rainbow toned coins within each auction that contained both toned and untoned coins. I remember the rainbow tag well and used it often. It is similar to the David Lawrence Star designation show here:



It was simply a way to separate the rainbow toned coins from the untoned coins, not a rainbow toned coin only auction.

Again, your examples show that Teletrade did run some rainbow toned only auctions, but you have not proven that they ran weekly for 12 years. I searched Teletrade regularly from 2005 till they were bought out, and I don't ever remember seeing a rainbow toned only event. Could there have been a special event or two that I missed? Certainly, but I would not have missed weekly rainbow toned only auctions. We will call it a semi-bluff.

No need for an excuse, despite your obvious contextomy. I have added the sentence that you felt the need to delete, it is in red within your quote.

Do you want people to believe that rainbow toned coins are common because there are dealers who specialize in selling rainbow toned coins? My point in that thread post was that specialized dealers like purveyors of rainbow toned and error coins consider their niche their primary market, not a secondary market. I have no idea how you draw the conclusion that rainbow toned coins are common from that statement. Furthermore, if you believe that is what I was saying, why did you feel the need to delete the sentence that included error coin dealers?

The fact is that most dealers who specialize in rainbow toned coins have less than 100 coins listed on their website. The only outfit that had a big selection of coins to choose from was Anaconda, and they only had a few hundred coins on their website.

If you truly think that rainbow toned coins are common Doug, then please address the math that both Vic and I have presented in this thread. Using E-Bay as an example, we have both shown that the number of rainbow toned coins as a percentage of total is less than 1%. Do you think that 1% is common? If not, please prove to the good members of this forum that the percentage rainbow toned coins is higher than that number.

 

Ok guys, here is a Teletrade tutorial. Since Doug thinks he is the only one with access to the way back machine, he showed you what he wanted you to see. I will show you what he doesn't want you to see. The date is March 21st, 2009 and this is the Teletrade homepage.





If you scroll down you see this:







If you look at the right hand column, you will see a box pertaining to rainbow toned coins. If you click on the line that says "more information", it will bring you to one of the screens that Doug showed us.






Now here is where it gets interesting. Right in the middle of the page, it says to call Ian Russell to consign to their upcoming Rainbow Event and underneath it shows to examples of rainbow toned coin listings. The first is a 1962 NGC PR67 Roosevelt Dime in auction 2662. At the bottom of the screen you can see "Auction 2662." And if you scroll down you see this.






At first glance, it appears that Doug is correct. Look, every single coin listed has the rainbow tag! But upon closer examination, the truth is revealed. Look at the lot numbers. There are lot numbers missing, omg! Did Teletrade have a unique lot numbering system that did not use sequential numbers? Nope, they just wanted to show you all the rainbow toned coins from that auction. If you actually browse the auction 2662 this is what you will find:






All of the lot numbers are sequential and accounted for. Some of the listings on the front page have tags for TONED and OLD SLAB but none have the RAINBOW tag. Unfortunately, the way back machine does not have every page of the auction, just the first page. But you get the idea. Teletrade used the RAINBOW tag to help customers easily identify which coins were RAINBOW toned. They used these tags for a wide assortment of things. So why would they have a picture of a coin that was listed in an auction that had both RAINBOW toned coins and untoned coins directly underneath the advertisement box to get you to consign to their RAINBOW event? Why wouldn't they show a coin that was in a RAINBOW only auction? You can draw your own conclusion.

As for me, I don't remember ever seeing a RAINBOW only auction at teletrade. I remember 4 auctions per week with coins spanning every denomination and series and RAINBOW tags that allowed for easy identification of rainbow toned coins. And I remember buying coins from Teletrade, some with color, some without! EG:














Just thought I would show you guys that I actually used Teletrade!

 

I am impressed that you cared enough to pull the auctions. Regardless, it doesn't change or undermine the argument we have been making throughout this thread.

 

This is why I usually insist on links and proof. Doug wasn't lying, wasn't trying to trick us. He was just wrong. He saw a picture of a "rainbow toned" auction and thought it was weekly, not only a few times. And it wasn't even a rainbow auction, just some toned coins mixed into the white.

eBay clearly exposes the numbers. Less than 1%. If someone wants to show otherwise please show it. As you can see simply stating it is obviously is just not enough. As to the "the fun show is full of toned coins" I believe it was Doug who told me when I was complaining that shows were high retail only that dealers bring their best material for their tables.