Beware of rainbow toning

My 1972/72 in a PCGS MS65RD OGH has definitely darken up over the years.



Its definitely not the bright red it was when it was submitted back around 1994.
Of course, this doesn't mean a thing as a single piece of evidence. It's just my opinion based upon my observation.

Coins, sometimes, do change in the holders while others do not.

I expect that it has a lot to do with what happened to the coin up to the grading process. How often have "milk spots" appeared on PR70DCAM Silver Eagles. Certainly those were there when the coin was graded?

Why do PCGS Slabbed Eagles have more of a tendency to spot than NGC Slabbed Eagles?

I also expect that the rinse and drying techniques used at the US Mint for proof and uncirculated coins has changed dramatically over the years which has an impact on the coins produced. As expressed earlier, its one reason why toned Peace Dollar were not as prevalent as toned Morgans.

I recall one poster over on CU that had done some experimenting with toning coins that were designated as AT by PCGS. That poster then sold those coins on eBay with the disclosure that the coins were in fact AT. The poster took a lot of heat but the point was that experimenting was occurring in finding a way to artificially or to accelerate the toning of certain coins.

The title of this thread is for buyers to beware and while good points have been posted both for and against toned coins, I think the point has been made that folks need to know what they are buying before laying out a lot of money on some colored coin since nobody, even the experts, can tell for sure as all of the comments are based upon "their opinions".

As for asking someone to "prove" that they can successfully tone a coin? Exactly who is going to jump onto the podium and hang themselves to prove a point? 100% of the folks that do so end up being drawn and quartered by forumites.

The abundance of toned silver eagles attest to the fact that there are many people out there playing the toned coin game and buyers should be aware that if its occurring with silver eagles then its occurring with other coin series.

Buy what you want but know what you buy. Both good and bad.

 

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If you can get a hold of a cheap Morgan Dollar with pull away toning, you can use the SEM to see if the areas showing the pull away toning have a higher dislocation density than the remainder of the surface of the coin. That would be the first step in proving/disproving the theory.

 

Whatever the market will bear.

 

I have looked at a lot of IKE 40% silver proofs in mint packaging, and the majority exhibit some kind of toning. AT...I don't think so? So we can find both supporting and contradictory evidence as to the prevelance of Artificial Toning.

 

Right now I am studying the surface chemistry of Contemporary Circulating Counterfeits of Mexican Cap and Rays whereupon the silver has been electroplated on the surface - a process of course superior to Sheffield copper plating. Mercury - cyanide - potassium and silver in a galvanic battery bath ... LOL

Mexican and Spanish Coin Dealers call this LIMPIA coins = cleaned coins.

I tried collecting Federal Error Coins in the 20thC - I lasted a year ... I need cutting edge ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271823975885?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

LIMPIA on a bronze surface ... LOL.

JPL

 

And Jesus' birthday is in 9 months!

 

How'd this happen? Seems like this post was skipped over. Page 22.

 

Earlier in the thread 19Lyds posted CU links that go along with it.

 

OK thanks.

 

That was quite the thread over at CU! Read many pages. Idk how many people here read it. I'm probably 9 years late to the party but that was a 2006 thread about a well known dealer that admitted to doctoring coins after being caught red handed. Toned a clean Morgan inside an old pcgs rattler among others. Admitted to it after getting caught and then was blasted for 20+ pages.

Frankly the toning didn't look very natural to me. It only looks like 3 color bands.

 

no, it didnt look natural at all

 

I hate to be a kill joy, but this is the type of material that is the subject of this thread. All of those look blatantly AT to me. If you like them, that is all that matters, but I do hope they are stable and don't turn into a mess in a couple of years.

 

he was just trollin

 

Wow. And that's the sum and substance of your capacity to understand what I just said. Fascinating.

Let me give it to you less complicated, then. You're collecting colors, we're collecting coins, without regard to colors. Is that clearer? When you're paying premiums for colors, that's what you're doing.

 

Did that post bother you? Truth hurts doesn't it? You can disagree with me all you want, but to insinuate that I don't have the intelligence to understand you is absolutely bush league and tells me that you actually agree with what I just wrote. After all, how could you disagree, it was factual.

Furthermore, if you think that I collect "colors" while everyone else is collecting coins, then I say "put up or shut up." I have assembled the 5th ranked Jefferson Nickel collection in the NGC registry complete with color photos and descriptions of every coin for the world to see. And more important than the overall rank is the number of views my set has, more than double then next highest viewed set.



The level of condescension that you show towards others who disagree with you is staggering. As if there was a right way or a wrong way to collect coins. And anytime you want to share your coins with us, we would be happy to see them.

 

I know what you are saying and yes, the 1974-S Silver Proof has a string tendency toward toning BUT I firmly believe that this was due to the rinse being used at the time.

I've seen 1971-S Coins with blue haze which appears to advance into toning but certainly nothing along the lines of a Silver Eagle.

1972-S Proof are the same in the early years but have a tendency toward green later in the year.

1973-S Proofs don't seem to haze or tome quite as much as the 71's and 72's but there are exceptions.

Having wildly toned Silver IKE Proof is no guarantee that the coin has not been messed with since the cases are easily opened and 3 out of 10 won't show any damage at all for reuses.

But again, I've yet to see a wildly toned Silver IKE Proof that I didn't "suspect" had been monkeyed with since I have looked at a LOT of these coins in the OGP.

 

No, that particular example did not but then I didn't see any others posted aside from the 1904-O which was shared. These pictures are what lead to the dealers downfall and his eventual confession. The 1904-O looked a whole lot better than the one I posted.

BTW, I found it curious that a forum search of this individual showed a lot of posts inquiring about what causes toning and what folks though of his recent finds.

 

I "think" he is saying that you have a vested interest in the product which you sell.

 

Lehigh, you provocative little bugger, res ipsa loquitur. Let me translate that for you, inasmuch as it applies, here: the fact you didn't answer to one thing I said, speaks for itself. It's kind of like this reply. It's like many of yours, really. You're very defensive, for one. You seem to take everything as a personal challenge. Here, do you want me to prove it to you? Here's what I said that honked you off. Pick a card--oh, sorry for the poker reference--make that, pick a sentence, any sentence, tell me where you disagree. This is what I said. Go for it. Let's see a responsive reply to something I said, for once...

"Right. Let me elaborate. Back in the day when we were condition-grading, excepting a few odd-ball collectors, tarnish was considered "environmental damage." That's why the "doctors" dipped silvers back then, to dip out that environmental damage. Today, with market grading, it's just the reverse. The odd-balls are the ones who consider toning environmental damage. The pendulum swung. Credit market grading for that."

 

I don't know how you gleaned that from his last post, but that is not what I gathered.