Cleaning and Toning of Ancient Coins; Opinions and Controversy Expected

No, I don't really have that many I wish were more toned and those will likely take on more toning than I want soon enough. I just wanted to play... and to understand the processes and options. A good experiment would be to take a cohort of similar coins and: 1)leave one group uncovered, inside; 2)leave one group in a protected area outside 3) put one group in my regular flips.

Accelerated toning certainly does sound ripe for an add-on CACA service

 

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You make a good case for that cabinet .

Back on to the topic of environmental protection, do you reckon a dry cabinet of the sort used for photographic equipment would work well for those of us with 60% humidity on average?

 

The original cleaning is superb and I would be happy to have such a coin in my collection. Accelerated toning is an interesting concept and I feel that it could be very hit or miss.

Personally, I am not a fan of how the toning turned out. While pretty on the eyes I prefer toning, if there is some, on the fields or as a highlight around the figure, inscription, or bust but not on the bust itself. That is just a personal preference. I am curious if you would be able to target specific areas for toning, such as the fields around the bust, by placing a non-reactive cloth over the bust.

Have you ruined the coin? I wouldn't think so because as you said the toning can be easily removed. Would removing the toning turn it blast white though? Part of the appeal of the original cleaning was that the coin came out of the cleaning with that older, slightly darker, silver look.

 

Toning compounds tend to lose potency with time. I might suggest making the cabinet out of 'safe' materials and adding a separate compartment in which you can insert leather, paper or other chemicals that are fresh. Heat speeds toning so the outside would be better a dark color and be set in the sunny window.

 

To my eye, the cleaned second coin is clearly an improvement over the first:



As Doug has observed, the uncleaned areas in this original coin hide and/or obliterate some of the detail, and the cleaned coin represents a step forward without smoothing, tooling, or otherwise falsifying the coin's features:



While the cleaned coin's surfaces still appear a bit rough, it's likely that this is what the coin looked like prior to collecting the deposits that were removed through cleaning, so there is no net loss of quality or detail

I'm not as big a fan of the artificially toned coin:



Toning, per se, is not a positive or negative effect on a coin's artistry or appeal (at least not to me). The one exception to this generalization are the gold Boscoreale aurei that have been toned due to impurities in either the gold flan or the dies used to strike them. I would agree that there is something extremely appealing about these aurei, even if I'm not able to articulate that appeal. But in general, I don't think toning necessarily adds (or detracts) from a denarius' appeal.

My two best illustrations of this issue are the following:



This coin has almost no toning and has clearly been cleaned (and maybe even polished) but is even more appealing in hand than in this picture.




Conversely, this Claudius denarius is extensively "old cabinet" toned and is also very appealing, even more so in hand. I doubt very much it would look as good to me if it were shiny and polished like the Cassius denarius.

BTW, for AE coins, I generally don't regard their patina as "toning" similar to silver denarii. The "patina" in AE coins is considerably more than a surface tarnish and removing it materially changes most AE coins. This doesn't mean "river patina" AE coins, which appear to be very close to their natural bronze state, cannot be very attractive. Take, for example, this Caligula AD LOCUTIO sestertius (not mine) recently sold by NAC for around $800,000 (including exchange rate and buyer's fee):



Is it more or less appealing than my coin that displays a normal AE patina:



I'm not sure which patina I find more attractive.

 

I like having a few yellow coins just to be able to make the point of how the coins looked in their day. Both of these are knockouts. If I had to pick one, it would be the top coin for a few style points here and there and just a bit more detail in hair and shields.

 

Your coin is infinitely more appealing, Ides. It's a no-brainer in my book. I don't find the splotchy appearance of the first coin attractive, even adding in Doug's points about detail.

 

Colorful, eh?

 

I believe I agree with Doug on that one...

 

I must be low class, If I could get my hands on the $800,000 coin, I would hoc it so fast, and quit my job, bum around for 5 years, then I might try to find a job. Nice coin, not $800,000 nice.

 

Just like me, always half and half or perpetually undecided about things

...I Love the reverse toning, but not as excited about it on the obverse..

 

The main Idea is clean but know when to STOP
I prefer to hold back on cleaning unless absolutely necessary to be able to real letters!

 

From what I've heard, these Cassius denarii were part of a hoard which was cleaned with acid after being subjected to industrial grade fertilizer in the region. Most of them look like your example (although they're generally poorly centered), but I don't find them unappealing as they'll all retone eventually.

In US coins, the preference for toning vs non-toning has changed several times in the last 100 years. Most coins were dipped and stripped of any patina in the mid-20th century, likely because people thought that bright and shiny = higher grade. Personally, I enjoy old cabinet toning but I remember the day when I preferred white coins. Non-collectors intuitively assume bright = better, so I wonder if this will eventually change again.

I substantially prefer the patina in your sestertius. The JDL/NAC coin is indeed of a higher grade and finer style but absolutely not 20 times better. I'd much rather have yours and have more than enough left over to build a great collection.

 

I love the looks of wildy-toned coins, but unfortunately most of 'em are due to some sort of nasty cleaning agent ...

here are a couple of my favourites from my nasty ol' collection ...




... not sure if any are suspect?

Luckily, my sweet 1911 quarter has been graded and okay'd ...

=> but yah, I certainly suspect that my dolphin-ancient has been recently cleaned (kinda like your new toned-sweetie, TIF)

*whatev*

Wow fricken cool, eh? (man, I love coins)

 

Many coins that I have purchased come in various plastic-looking flips. I usually take the coin out and put it in an album and save the flip thinking it can be reused when I sell coins. How does one tell if a flip is pvc or some other material?

 

You use the same technique they used on witches a few hundred years ago. You try to kill them (dunking in water or the like). If you succeed it means they were innocent but if they don't die, you have to burn them. In the case of flips, bend them. If they split and break, they were good material but if they are soft enough to fold without damage, they are PVC and should be discarded. I talked to a dealer in Baltimore who had a lot of coins. He said he was planning to reflip his stock. I told him that the number of coins he had would cost over $1000 to flip. What he needed to do was lower his prices and sell more coins. I bought two from him and nine from a cheaper dealer (who uses cheaper flips). I have several hundred used flips. If you buy a coin from me, you should not keep it in the flip I provide. I have no idea where they have come from and how long ago any one hit the box.

 

I find this topic interesting. I don't care at all how a coin was toned, all I care about is it's appearance when I make the purchase. To me, toning in an envelope, cabinet or egg in tupperware is equally natural/unnatural. These coins were meant to be handled and spent, not stored away in collections.
Here is one of my favorite coins and it happens to have wild toning which is very appealing to me.

 

G

A dealer AND a comedian! Thanks!

 

Looks like end-roll toning.

 

Interesting comments and discussion, everyone! Thanks

I'm not familiar with that type of cabinet. Nevermind. Thanks, Google!

Storage is always a conundrum. I want easy access to my coins since part of the joy in owning them is handling them. A storage cabinet would be nice but it would be difficult to make it even somewhat sealed. I'd hate to put the whole thing in a sealed tub or box.

Right now they are inelegantly in flips which are in plastic boxes which are inside a larger plastic box, with desiccant.