On a couple of instances I have come across pinhole-sized carbon spots on MS65 graded coins. On one occasion there were black spots in the center of larger milky colored spots which I though may have been dip residue, so I returned the coin. On the coin pictured there isn't any other spotting, just the black fleck that you can see in the wing detail. It is quite visible without magnification under natural daylight, but under a lamp it isn't quite as obvious unless turned at an angle. Nothing that jumps out but I know it's there. I realize that MS65 is far from a perfect grade and allows for minor blemishes, but I'm not sure if this type of issue would be limiting for that grade, particularly since it may have turned in the holder after grading. Would others be bothered by this or am I just picky? I don't have a lot of experience with high grade blast white coins like this one that have been dipped and I know that problems can show up later.
Carbon Spots are a natural blemish that, unfortunately, can devalue a coin. For this specific coin, the small carbon dot shown would not bother me. To answer your specific question, it depends on who the buyer is as to whether they would be bothered by the spots or not. Personally, I DO NOT think that a coin with carbon spots graded at MS-65 equals a coin graded MS-65 without carbon spots. While grading is mostly reliable, Remember the golden rule: buy the coin and not the plastic.
I agree with what @Wheatmaster101 says. I prefer a coin without carbon spots over one with them, but I don't think a spot or two, particularly ones that are small or non-distracting, is grade-limiting at all. That said, I have turned down a coin for carbon spots before, so it really depends on the coin. I think yours would have been okay to me. It's small enough I wouldn't have really cared about it.
Just an add-on question to this thread... Say someone wanted to submit a coin with carbon spots to a TPG, Does anyone know if there is a designation that any major TPG uses to state that a coin has carbon spots? Or will they simply lower the overall grade of the coin? P.S- I am mainly speaking about coins with minor carbon spots, because a coin with an infestation would probably come back as environmentally damaged.
As far as I know, carbon spots just factor into eye appeal, thus into the overall grade, unless, as you say, the coin is covered with black stuff.
I have bought coins at auction with these tiny spots and know that they sell below, sometimes well below, average because of a spot. Though it may not hurt the grade, it does hurt appeal which is the driving force of values.
Carbon spot - that's another one of those terms that has come to be used to describe many different things caused by many other different things. Originally a carbon spot was just that, a tiny speck of carbon. It came to be as a result of a tiny speck of impurity in the metal of the planchet that corroded over time and became carbon after the coin was struck. They did not grow, they could not be removed, and there was nothing that could be done about them. But as often happens, over the course of time any small dark spot on a coin came to be called a carbon spot because people had heard or read the term before, saw a dark spot on a coin and not knowing what it really was, said - oh, that's a carbon spot - when it wasn't a carbon spot at all. In today's world it's become a catch-all term and is used to describe all kinds of things. Such as: saliva droplets, small specks of any organic material, actual carbon spots, remnant specks of dark toning mostly removed by dipping, the list goes on. And yes, spots caused by some of these things can be removed, others cannot. And in some cases even after they are removed a corresponding light spot where the dark spot used to be will be left on the coin. So there is not always a benefit in trying to remove them, and in some cases it may even turn out worse. Most of this can be determined beforehand if you know what you are looking at when you see it. If you don't, then you should leave it for others to decide.
For this coin I would like to see the entire obverse before I would make a judgement call. Only suggestion I can offer is kind of cliché but if you don't like it now, how do you think you'll feel down the road? If you're unhappy with it, it may be wise to pass on buying.
I appreciate everyone's advice. The educational opportunities on CT are truly second to none! I recently purchased this coin off of a poorly photographed Ebay auction listing which didn't show any spots. Sometimes those can be diamonds in the rough, and I thought I got a great deal since the price was well below market for a 65. When I noticed the spots I thought maybe I'm just too picky, so I'm grateful for the feedback on this forum that helped me to see that it wasn't just me. Therefore I decided to take advantage of the seller's return policy, following Wheatmaster's advice to buy the coin and not the plastic. Just before putting the coin in the shipping envelope I showed it to my wife who noticed the spot right away. Perhaps if I would have done that to begin with I wouldn't have needed to start this thread...
