NGC Secures Restraining Order and Preliminary Injunction Order in Coin Tampering Case

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by KBBPLL, Feb 25, 2023.

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  1. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    https://www.ngccoin.com/news/articl...dium=Email&utm_campaign=23_NGC_RestOrder_0218

    One down, many to go. I'm curious how this is done though. The implication is that he was replacing coins with inferior ones into genuine NGC holders, so apparently he's been opening them and putting them back together without damaging them. This doesn't seem like an easy thing to do.

    I could not find sold history for any of the ebay seller names he was scamming under - ricalbr-40, Walkerlvr or halfcrazy23. Am I searching wrong or did ebay purge the sales history?
     
    KBBPLL, Feb 25, 2023
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    masterswimmer, Joel Turner, Mr.Q and 1 other person like this.
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  3. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    I was wondering the same thing. I could build the machine to cut them open but sealing them back is not something I could duplicate. I wish NGC the best going after dishonest sellers.
     
    ldhair, Feb 25, 2023
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    GoldFinger1969 and KBBPLL like this.
  4. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    Nail him to the wall!
     
    BadThad, Feb 25, 2023
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  5. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    Makes me wonder why this isn't also a criminal case.
     
    KBBPLL, Feb 25, 2023
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  6. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Concentrated heat and a very sharp scapple could do the job. A steady hand, great eye site, and an evil mind and Walla the switch is done! Intent to deceive for profit is a crime. Thanks for sharing!
     
    Mr.Q, Feb 25, 2023
    #5 + Quote Reply
  7. Evan Saltis

    Evan Saltis OWNER - EBS Numis LLC

    This is why investigating the seams of your holders is important. Sonic welding is what the TPGs use. My assumption is that he simply glued them back, which would be detectable if you knew what you were looking for / at.
     
    Evan Saltis, Feb 25, 2023
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  8. Jim Dale

    Jim Dale Well-Known Member

    I have one coin that I would like to take out of the PCGS holder. I'm thinking about trying it out with NGC. I'm afraid to do it, for fear of damaging the coin in the process.
     
    Jim Dale, Feb 25, 2023
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    MIGuy likes this.
  9. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I'd love to say more about this seller, but it would mostly be words that aren't allowed on CoinTalk. :punch:
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2023
    -jeffB, Feb 25, 2023
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  10. Dynoking

    Dynoking Well-Known Member

    Wow, just wow...
     
    Dynoking, Feb 25, 2023
    #9 + Quote Reply
  11. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    Great another thing to worry about...LOL
     
    mpcusa, Feb 25, 2023
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  12. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    It's easier than you think once you understand physics of the slab.

    I once posted multiple split slab halves here, complete with original labels, upon reading a thread describing various coin removal processes.

    The only slab I found to not be easily opened was SEGS.

    I was amazed that none questioned the coin removal process, which couldn't be disclosed anyway.

    I haven't located any slab that can't be opened with 3 cuts, and most 2, without damage to the coin.

    JMHO
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2023
    imrich, Feb 25, 2023
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  13. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    I wish NGC the best.
     
    Collecting Nut, Feb 25, 2023
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  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    And what would the seam look like if the person doing this used a sonic welder himself to reseal the slab ?

    Sonic welders are easy to come by, anybody who wants one can but one, and they are not terribly expensive -

    https://www.google.ca/search?as_q=&...ch=&as_occt=any&safe=images&as_filetype=&tbs=
     
    GDJMSP, Feb 26, 2023
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  15. Evan Saltis

    Evan Saltis OWNER - EBS Numis LLC

    Some of these machines are very expensive. $1,500 is pretty high startup cost, if you ask me.
     
    Evan Saltis, Feb 26, 2023
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  16. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    As @imrich indicated, opening a sonically-sealed holder is a snap if you understand the process and have the right equipment. Most of us do not, and that's a good thing for the TPG's. Still, there are obviously those out there who would go to such lengths, so they need to take the next step.

    I think their next logical improvement in dealing with this might be to add an internal indicator which would deform permanently if the halves of a holder were separated.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2023
    ToughCOINS, Feb 26, 2023
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  17. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins

    Achtung, achtung. This slab will self destruct in 5 seconds.
     
    green18, Feb 26, 2023
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  18. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Brother can you spare a trime? Supporter

    Follow through the links I've posted to read the actual complaint from Pacer (US Courts system). NGC has a picture showing the top/bottom seam is cracked.

    upload_2023-2-26_15-25-23.png

    (you have to create an account and are billed for usage, but up to $30/quarter gets waived)

    https://ecf.nysd.uscourts.gov/doc1/127132664820 cost $2.90 although there is probably a cost-free version available, I didn't bother to search for it.

    Text of the order: https://casetext.com/case/provenance-ngc-llc-v-albright

    Read the TRO and understand the restrictions were AGREED to by the plaintiff and defendant. Now, remember, the defendant hasn't admitted to doing any of this, so agreeing not to do more of it is not the home run it might sound like at first. There's nothing that prevents him from selling NGC coins as long as the slabs aren't tampered with, for example.

     
    Burton Strauss III, Feb 26, 2023
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  19. Evan Saltis

    Evan Saltis OWNER - EBS Numis LLC

    PCGS uses a vacuum chamber that effortlessly opens the slabs.
     
    Evan Saltis, Feb 26, 2023
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  20. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    Just the last seller name is shown still open but everything is removed:

    FB.jpg
    Images of one of the switched:

    edge 2.jpg
    walker obv.jpg
     
    Jack D. Young, Feb 26, 2023
    #19 + Quote Reply
    imrich likes this.
  21. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    The coin on the right is nice looking but it’s not even close to the left one. Despite it having the same number, it’s just totally different.
     
    Collecting Nut, Feb 26, 2023
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