Is numismatics going the way of philately?

There are several key differences between collecting stamps and collecting coins.

People grow up using coins on a daily basis, especially children who aren't dealing with large sums of money. Stamps are rarely used, almost never by children.

A child may find change on the ground and feel like they found something special. They can hold the coin in their hand and play with it. How many times do you find a stamp on the ground?

You grow up with coins of a certain type, and then when the type changes, seeing the old coins can invoke nostalgia. Nostalgia leads to curiosity into even older coins. There are too many varieties of stamps being produced for anyone to latch on to one type and really feel a sense of nostalgia. More importantly, these associations form in your mind when you are young, and young people are not often exposed to stamps, especially with the advent of email.

As long as coins are being circulated and they keep changing the types once in a while, coin collecting will be here to stay.

 

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I do not disagree with you. Coin collecting is here to stay, but so is stamp collecting. They're probably two of the biggest hobbies in the world. Relating to nostalgia, if you're over 50, I would agree with you on that. With our basic cashless society, nostalgia is being thrown out the window. Mostly everything is bought with credit cards. Kids today want a $20 bill, not 50 cents. It's up to us and the societies we belong to, to promote coin and stamp collecting to the young people. I think I can teach world history better than half of the teachers with a pound of foreign coins.

You have to look at accessibility. You can go onto the internet and buy a thousand different US or worldwide stamps for about $5.00 with shipping. That's how you can start younger people into stamp collecting. The same goes with foreign coins. The US coins, we still have the penny, nickel and the state quarters are still popular especially with the younger generation. Like I mentioned before, you can get these in circulation.

 

I don’t see how some suggest any coin is over priced, including moderns or classics. Prices are determined by supply & demand, not dealers. True, during the first few months of a new issue prices can fluctuate wildly from speculation – however, after this period prices settle based on supply & demand. Most recent issues have not declined to less than issue price, unless their price is based mostly on PM value or too many were made. So the moral, either buy from the mint or if you missed the boat, wait for prices to settle.

 

I used to sell to dealers, as they were the only game in town. The first time I made a profit on a coin was with the advent of the internet with sites like eBay. All of my heirs have been advised to sell on eBay if they want the best price.

 

"Is Numismatics Going the Way of Philately?"

Honestly, yes, I believe it is, only MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more slowly. The stamp hobby collapsed in about a generation. The coin hobby might have 3 or so generations left in her. Then, it'll be, "What's a coin?".

{Maestro, if you please.}

"In the year 2525, if man is still alive..."

 

Good old days Kurt...

 

The problem with the modern coins, the dealers do control the supply and the price. They hype it up so good and that's how you get the demand. When you go to sell the same coin to the dealer, I doubt you will make any money, you'll probably lose. That's with the US and world issues.

 

Oh no. Another doomsday scenario.

 

Thanks for a 'look back ' guys.........

 

Not so old actually. Seems like yesterday.

"Now it's been ten thousand years, man has cried a billion years
For what, he never knew, now man's reign is through
But through eternal night, the twinkling of starlight
So very far away, maybe it's only yesterday."

Remember pals, it's US who is the ethereal part of the picture. We don't "own" coins as much as we sign up to be their curators. Have a little respect, 'sall.

 

Bought and paid for 100%

 

So I don't know but I feel like the hobby may be in a bubble right now and I think only collecting MS70 coins is part of that bubble. I also think the collectors of those grades provide an opportunity for other collectors to obtain very nice examples at less inflated prices as the hype fades while moving down in grades.

But what do I know? I know if it doesn't say "GOOD FOR XX IN TRADE" or "MDSE" I'm probably not buying anyway!

The entire "investment" side of the hobby cheapens the experience for me.

 

It's not so much 70 grades per se that are creating the bubble, if it is one. It's the gameification of the hobby through Registry Sets. If the coin hobby has been slowly burning away like the last log in a campfire, then the Registry Sets phenomenon just may be like throwing gasoline on said log's embers. It makes a stunning show, but it's highly destructive and dangerous to all surrounding cumbustables.

 

I appreciate your insight @V. Kurt Bellman, but I may have not been clear. I don't think the MS70 grades created this bubble but are a manifestation of it, probably the registry sets as well.

 

Yeah, I started to get queasy about where the hobby is going when it stopped being about what pieces one has, and started being about what the other fellow can't get. I think registries encourage that nonsense.

 

Dealers push the MS 70 and it causes other grades to suffer in price

 

Question: Do YOU PERSONALLY believe there is a repeatable distinction between a MS70 and a MS69 coin? If so, then you get what you got. If not, don't play the game! Buy the 69.

At Portland ANA, I watched two things happen that made me mutter to myself.

1) I watched Lee Minshull drag a hand truck to the U.S. Mint booth and stack three huge cartons on it (after the mint's people ran his credit card), then schlep the whole operation up to NGC, NOT FILL OUT A SINGLE LETTER ON A NGC FORM (telling them "70's only, you fill out the forms") and threw the same credit card at them. I asked NGC what that was about when I gave them MY order the next day. They said "Homestead 5 ounce pucks. If they don't make 70, we send them back without slabbing."

2) I watched Mike Ellis sit at the QA [check] booth and write out longhand on slips explaining why a bunch of NGC AND PCGS slabs graded MS70 and PF70 wouldn't get a QA sticker.

SOMEBODY has to be high in this scenario, and it just might be those chasing 70 labels. If the show had been in Colorado, I would be SURE they were ALL high.

 

The Modern MS 70 are over priced and look at the pop reports. The mint makes just about a perfect coin every time now . What a 69 now and them
The dealers push it and a lot of collectors fall for it and a lot cant tell a 70 from a 69 they buy the slab not the coin
Try to sell them back. And I don't play the game with Modern coins

 

That's exactly right. That's another reason why collecting could go into oblivion. The price differential between one grade and the next is absurd.

Just to give you an idea of how bad collectors are getting hosed by dealers (with help from grading companies), dealers can now submit slabbed coins for reconsideration. Is that not the biggest joke?

Since grading companies have become big business the grades will continue to change more and more as the supply of coins worth grading become less and less. It's called self preservation. They will do whatever they can to keep revenue stream up. The result will be a coin that originally graded MS63, turning into MS64. Then MS65, MS66, etc.

I don't know the current statistics, but I'm willing to bet that less than 1% of the coins that get a grade change from reconsideration submissions go down a grade. How come all the grade changes are up?? Isn't grading supposed to be impartial and unbiased??

At last years ANA Show in Chicago, I read that a major coin dealer (who submits thousands upon thousands each year) submitted something like the first 6 coins released of the 50th Anniversary Kennedy to one of the top grading companies and they all graded MS70. Then something like the next 10 submitted by small timers all graded MS69. Corruption you think?? [Someone please revise the numbers if they are not exact, thank you]

 

I read (some of) this post just after reading the post about the evolution of Roman coinage, and just thought...a coin has an intrinsic metal value while a postage stamp has really no intrinsic value. I like specie.