1894 Indian Head Cent

Discussion in 'What's it Worth' started by Boot, Feb 24, 2015.

  1. robertxavier

    robertxavier Member

    hi, yes - well, i did make a fair offer of $40.00 for 6 of the indian head cents, a corroded barber dime, a decent 39D jefferson, and a 13' buffalo, and she declined and stated that they were worth more , and accused me of trying to "rip her off"... and i just came from a store in deerfield, ma - and saw some of the same dated indian heads in similar condition selling for $3.00 - $5.00 in a retail setting, so i thought that offering $2.00 for each indian head was fair... it's a learning experience, ive just been collecting coins for their silver, but now i'm taking a different look at them... thanx for the remark/reply. - robert
     
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  3. Boot

    Boot Junior Member

    Each Indian Head Cent, can vary dramatically in price. Years 66-78 are quite valuable even in G and VG grades. There are also snow variations to consider. This is a language to learn, and an experience to savor. She may/may not really know the value of the coins either. Just because key dates and higher quality coins are exacting a high price, doesn't mean common dates and poor grades are worth much more that a buck to two.
     
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  4. KurtS

    KurtS Die variety collector

    Quite a lot of people over-grade and over-value coins--go with your instinct on that. Even solid VF IHCs from 1900-9 (excluding the S-mint coins) are worth not much over $5 apiece, those from the 1890's slightly more. As Boot said, coins from this period in G4-6 are worth around a buck or so. Anyone who would accuse you of "ripping them off" when offered a fair price is probably not open to any negotiation--let them hold their coins; you will find better deals. :D

    A little bit of info--here's a price list Rick Snow (an IHC expert) compile on circulated bronze IHC values--these are retail prices.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. robertxavier

    robertxavier Member

    wow, that's awesome thanx so much, yeah i just decided that she can keep them, i just really wanted it to be a fair experience / deal for both of us... i'm really interested in learning more, there's so many different coins, it's a bit overwhelming and i'm not sure where to start!
     
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  6. Boot

    Boot Junior Member

    Might want to get on e-bay or such and get a second hand copy of one of Rick Snows Flying Eagle and Indian Head Cents Guide books. (If you are going to sink any money into this). It is easy reading, and will ground you in some of the basics. From there, practice grading until you are confident. Being ignorant is just money in the bank everyone but you.
     
  7. robertxavier

    robertxavier Member

    you're absolutely right... thanx for the advice...any other recommendations as far as maybe starting with some different coins to collect? do some start of sticking with just nickels or only dimes? i like silver dollars, but even the common ones seem a little bit above my current budget.
     
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  8. Boot

    Boot Junior Member

    Hmm. I won't tell you what to do. I started with existing cents I had, then worked on completing a set. I parted from that for a bit, then learned how to grade with Lincoln cents, I got sharper. Then I started on Barber Dimes. Returned to Indian head cents. Regardless, study and improve your grading, before getting off your wallet. Places like these sites are useful. Practice, and calibrate with others. Enjoy the process, not just getting the coins. A 15-20 dollar book or two will save you in the long run.
     
  9. robertxavier

    robertxavier Member

    i gotcha' , yeah, i'm going to get some reference material and continue asking questions, and comparing grades, etc...
     
  10. Boot

    Boot Junior Member

    Funny, starting out, I learned to grade AG, Good-fine grades. I was getting efficient in that zone. I was lousy at XF/AU and higher grades. However, spending countless hours, looking at 1000s of coins, I'm ranging higher now with greater confidence. There are many pitfalls to the higher grade coins. We must be careful of coins that have been cleaned, altered, counterfeit, polished etc. There is a range of normal luster and aspects. There is much to learn. Again, all fun to do. We just need to be careful of our budget, while we are steep on the learning curve. Nice chat btw, thanks.
     
  11. davidh

    davidh soloist gnomic

    feather.JPG

    Back to the original thread (before it got hijacked) - two comments:

    First, is there doubling in front of the first feather? It appears to replicate the feather from the tip down through the headband but dropped down a bit,

    Second, linking to ebay, or any other site like photo storage sites, is self defeating as the link is only temporary and will disappear after a few days, weeks or months or whenever the owner deletes the picture. It's better to just copy the picture, although that does raise copyright issues.
     
  12. Boot

    Boot Junior Member

    Yes, I agree on the feather. I really wanted this coin, it had many interesting aspects. Unfortunately, the scratches on the reverse made that a problem. The coin was going for 700+ dollars. (negotiable). I just couldn't consider doing anything near that for a coin that wouldn't grade. I haven't seen a 94/94 anywhere near this attractive, or interesting(yet). Most of they are below VG. Alas, I will wait.
     
  13. KurtS

    KurtS Die variety collector

    I can state pretty confidently from reading the variety sources that no DDO or DDR exists on this variety. :)

    Buying that coin even at $250 would be a liability--if you ever wanted to upgrade, it would be a hard-sell except at a fire-sale price (ie a loss). The obverse looks scrubbed to me--it has that washed-out appearance I try to avoid. Since these are hard to cherrypick in higher grades, you might try buying from a variety dealer that has a good reputation and a review/return period on all they sell. I won't make this post an advertisement, but if you want more info just email me. :)
     
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  14. Boot

    Boot Junior Member

    Well, I now have a MS grade 1894. I was hoping for a high grade overdate, but that ship has sailed for now. I will keep that in mind. (contacting you). I will be purchasing several more coins, to complete an AU+ collection. I am taking my time of some of these dates. 62, 64, 66, 69, 72, 77. Some of these are may double the cost of the collection. I am going to take my time, and savour the hunt. (I already have lower grade coins in these dates, and they will become a B collection).
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2015
  15. bryantallard

    bryantallard show me the money....so i can look through it

    I am probably close to the bottom of totem pole as knowledge and completely knowing what I am talking about.... but it's hard to offer an opinion of value without seeing any of the coins. you said she thinks the IH are VF...what do you think they would grade? what are the grades of the other coins? but I honestly I think you should offer a $100.00. because your 1913 D Jefferson nickel would probably get you something close to the value of a 1943 copper penny. maybe more, maybe less.
     
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  16. davidh

    davidh soloist gnomic

    Not arguing your statement, but how would you describe the ghost image in front of the headdress? No doubling exists is different from no KNOWN doubling exists. Die polishing could have erased any other traces of doubling and necessitated re-punching the date.

    I'm neither a doubling expert nor an IHC expert.
     
  17. KurtS

    KurtS Die variety collector

    Internet opinions--'expert' or otherwise--should be questioned. :) As for whether those lines in the field are doubling, pictured below is a well-known DDO in the headdress for comparison--check out the doubling in the feather shafts and LIBERTY--that's where die doubling shows up. Die doubling does not show as slight marks in the fields, because that's where the hub is lowest.

    [​IMG]

    These marks in the fields near the profile of Liberty--which I assume is damage--does not show up on other examples of this 1894/1894. That's another reason it hasn't been documented as a doubled die or die variety--it hasn't been seen on other coins.

    Dates are not repunched to fix an "erased" date due to polishing. At least there's no evidence seen, particularly on this 1894/1894--which has been studied in detail. The prevailing theory is that RPDs exist because the first date impression was placed improperly. In fact, on the 1894/1894, you can clearly see how tilted the original date was impressed. Yes, the original date impression was polished out (incompletely)--but that was to fix the date, not something else.

    Since RPDs have been studied throughout the life of the die--from early die states to terminal die states--suggests that dating the dies was handled before the dies entered service.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
  18. davidh

    davidh soloist gnomic

    See highlighted quote
    The danger of making absolute statements like this is that a single example blows your argument out of the water. Reference the recently found 1919 DDO Dime - found only after 97 years of circulation and trade.
     
  19. KurtS

    KurtS Die variety collector

    Well look...I commented only on this particular, very well-documented 1894/1894. The marks on this coin, which are alleged to be a DDO, are simply not seen on other examples of this variety. So, no this is not like the 1919 DDO dime--at all. 1. The 1894 Snow-1 is already very well-known and its markers studied carefully. 2. A true doubled die wouldn't appear on one example and not on another--that's just not how dies are made. 3. Whatever "argument" I brought to this discussion was to help the OP understand what he's seeing on that coin. You can compare this coin to others of this variety and see it's just damage in this area. I may be knowledgeable about IHCs, but I don't care about trolling on this topic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2015
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