Is numismatics going the way of philately?

I was once an avid philatiest, a stamp collector. I have amassed a fairly large collection which I stopped adding to in the late 70's. I own every commerative issue to that time period, also every air mail issue to the same period. I also have at least 75% of every regular issue stamp to the same period, including the early issues.

At one time, the regular issues were brought out in series which lasted 10 years, or more. Commemorative issues were limited to six per year. Then things began to change to the point where new regular issues were issued about every year and commeratives were issued in mass amounts every year. There are years where there were over 100 commemoratives issued. These were issued in sheets of 50 or 100 different stamps commemorating birds, flags, comic books, famous (and not so famous) people, classic cars, flowers, etc, etc, etc.

It became obvious to me that stamps were no longer something special to be collected and studied but merely a money making racket by the Post Office. Stamps obviously were not being issued for postage alone as fewer actual stamps are being used each year. They are no longer depictions of historical events, just junk. With millions of each example being produced each year, "collectors" now just fill up 8-10 pages, every year, with little colored pieces of paper.

I see coin collecting going the same way. At one time we simply had the regulat denomination coins, dated each year, for a number of years, changed only when the design changed. There were the occasional commemorative halves or quarters issued but only to a limited extent. Throw in proof sets and year sets and you had a manageable set for each year.

Now, added to the above mix we have Silver proof sets, gold proof sets, clad proof sets, individual proof coins, proofs in different finishes, platinum coins, several dollar coins, several presidential coins, a gold buffalo coin, quarters with multiple reverse designs, Kennedy halves, first spouse coins, American eagle coins and a handful of medals. Many of these are offered in either gold or silver, and many are issued by more than one mint.

As the BEP started issuing stamps not intended to serve as postage but rather to increase revenue, so the US Mint is issuing products not intended for commerce, but to increase revenue. While once the average coin collector could collect everything issued in any particular year, today this can only be done by persons with very large amounts of disposable income. Casual stamp collecting is on a decline for these reasons, will coin collecting follow?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

and this is why I collect world coins. endless variety.

 

Sure it will happen. We see the chasm open when bullion jumps or more fantasy issues with new members only wanting to collect metal rather than the historical pursuit which needs study and research. I have no idea what will seduce the collecting disordered youth of the future or I would be rich, well maybe dead and rich. If implantable neuro-wetware becomes a human plugin, then maybe that, and some apps could prolong numismatics, a Mike Diamond app for errors, All PCGS graders APP would give the same grade on a specific coin, A Doug app for pre-history,, etc.

P.S. I also have similar stamp collections

 

Some folks like the "endless variety", but the question OP is essentially asking is... will too much variety and production for the sake of continually increasing revenue (for the Mint) kill coin collecting in the future? This is a question I've thought about long and hard. Although I don't believe coin collecting will fall as hard or fast as stamp collecting (Paper vs metal. Also coins are used much more widely so it will have longer lasting nostalgic effect), I do think it will become less and less popular over the coming decades and therefore less and less valuable.

Many variations of coins ALONG WITH high quantities are being produced. Too many different options with each option not being rare is a recipe for implosion of value. When the mint and the dealers milk every last drop out of collectors, the market crashes and everyone's collection will lose value. Collections that have a majority of their value in modern coins will take the biggest losses. However, even those with rare/scarce classic coins (18th and 19th century) will realize a drop in their value. The drop in values will create a compounding cycle which will make collecting even less popular which then lowers prices even more. The cycle will perpetuate itself over and over again until coins are basically worthless.

I don't think there is any denying that coin collecting is at an all time high in popularity now. All the shows across the country are packed. Last year dealers paid bums to stand in line for Kennedy 50th Anniversary release. I think we're currently in a bubble and that this pace cannot be sustained. History shows us what happens next.

 

I saw stamps at my last coin show 3 days ago in Vegas. granted it was a small section. lol I think coins are here to stay. the longer I stay in this hobby the more I end up liking the older coins from the 19th century. I believe the modern stuff is on the way out. the thing that scared me a little at this last coin show was...I felt like the youngest guy there and I am 53! lol

 

I hope you're right about "coins are here to stay". I like coin collecting and would rather it remain popular than not. I gave my opinion in my previous post and stated the reasons why I think it will become much less popular.

No one knows for sure what will happen to this hobby. The only thing I am confident in is that it will change. Everything changes as time goes on. As others have said, change is the only constant. How it will change remains to be seen.

 

I forgot to mention...the value of a coin ? some put monetary values on them and some value them as priceless and will never sell them. I value my collection with both perspectives.

 

I think you make some good points. Add counterfeiting to the problem.

 

I've collected both stamps and coins for well over 60 years now. I started to bail out about 10 years ago, and along the way, made 3 big consignments to Stack's, and glad I did.

I'm now about 90% stamps and 10% coins, and work 6 to 8 hours a day cataloging, organizing, writing ads, listing material, etc., pure enjoyment.

I happen to think the dollar will peak no later than 2016-7, then begin a long decline; right now, the dollar's the cleanest (dirty) shirt in the laundry basket, as they say. If your entire asset structure is denominated in dollars (or worse, euros), I'd say you have a beeeeeg problem.

But I think bullion's the better investment. Every country in the world, even China, is technically bankrupt, and all this will end badly. The nominal value of outstanding derivatives is presently almost 20 times the GDP of the entire world.

Watch www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4b_Dt1Mq-k

Investors will be looking for a place to park cash, and new paradigms to invest in, and I see a reasonably good future for coins, stamps, and art, so I'm in no big hurry to sell. I think stocks, bonds, land, and housing will suffer big losses.

One little-known fact is that during a prior period of economic chaos, the Great Depression of the 1930s, stamp collecting hit its peak popularity of the entire 20th Century, whereas coins did not bust out until the guys came home from World War II, and the first Redbooks emerged. I'll be gone one of these days, so none of this matters now, but in the meantime, I'm enjoying my C-T time...

If I were 30 and had 2 kids, I'd be going nuts trying to figure out how to give them a good future.

 

The constant need to add to existing is the motivator behind all business. Do we actually need a new iPhone every year? Not sure if it matters if it's a phone or a coin.

I do enjoy buying modern bullion. I pick and I choose what I buy secure in the knowledge that the mint cost, dealer premium, tax and postage makes the purchase a dreadful investment. I have the melt value of the silver but I am very unlikely to ever get what I paid for it.

We get our enjoyment in different ways but do understand the OPs point about mints cashing in and killing off the goose. For modern bullion, Canada seems extraordinarily keen to bring out many low cost, low quality coins.

 

In my mind, its not the proliferation of designs that will kill off coin collecting. I think its the lowering of, or cheapening, of production standards. Just take a Lincoln cent. Look at one from your pocket versus something like a 1964 cent. Look how much more attractive the 1964 issue is. Same thing with all denominations. Coins simply were more attractive in the past before computer graphics.

 

It seems like the state quarters program issued in this new era. The mint was trying to recruit new collectors. I would suppose this is their way of getting new collectors by offering so many different coins. I feel if anything is hurting coin collecting its the lack of young people. When I go to the coin shows my son is usually the only 20-something in the crowd. Its not going to be the mint that will be the demise of the collecting world. It will be the lack of collectors. So get those kids away from the video games and into a better rewarding hobby.

I collected stamps as a kid also in the '70s. Matter of fact I bought stamps the other day at the post office for my collection.

 

Yeah, but the problem with that argument is I have been hearing it forever. Heck, in the 70's when I was a child collector people were all saying the lack of good finds in circulation and no silver coinage was "the absolute end of coin collecting since no young people will be interested". The EXACT SAME argument has appeared every single year since. Also, when I was young, the average age of a collector at a show was about 55. What is the average age today? About 55. On average, coin collecting is an older male hobby. It always has been, and always will be. Most collectors are not like me and get involved after job, marriage, and children are started. Most are 35-40 when they come into the hobby. Therefor, I have always felt, even though I was a YN way back when, that YN "outreach" programs are silly. They aren't necessary for this hobby's health, since most collectors only start when they are much older anyway.

 

Coin collecting is alive and well and continues to thrive. The few shows that I go to each year are always well attended. The fact that so many older folks attend these shows has been misinterpreted as a sign of the decline and fall of the hobby. It is a false sign. If one attended a show 20 years ago they would have observed the same phenomena.........old collectors and few young people. Where are all the older guys who attended those shows 20 years ago? A lot of them have passed on. Who fills their ranks at present day shows? Guys like me who didn't have the time to attend shows (20 years ago) and who were working to make ends meet and raise a family.

As for the so called 'junk' that the mint is flooding the market place with, if you don't like it then don't buy it. But somebody is. I, for one, like some of this so called junk. Seems to me that a lot of other folks do too.

 

Same thing happened to sports cards in the '80's - now you cannot give the cards away.

 

I don't think introducing young people to a hobby is such a silly notion. Go out and ask some young folks what hobby they enjoy. Video games and Facebook are not hobbies. Try finding young males in crafts or trades. Then it is our responsibility as older males to educate them. That was a cop out of an answer.

Medorman you're a member of all those alphabetical concoctions, I know at least one of those organizations believes in education and outreach to YN's.

 

Yes, many believe in outreach. However, every single organization who works on such outreach use the same tired, clichéd, and erroneous reasons to do outreach. This hobby will not die without YN's, since most collectors today were not YN's and we are fine and will continue to be fine. Outreach should be done not to save the hobby but simply since its a nice thing to do for young people.

I didn't consider it a cop out answer. For full disclosure, I am a Boy Scout merit badge counselor for coins and other things, I have donated coins and my time for Ancient Coin for Education program, and give away late roman coins to YN's all of the time. I am not anti-YN at all, and I do spend time and money to help youngsters in this hobby. I am simply saying all of the reasons people always trot out why this hobby will die if we do not get more kids involved are wrong, and have been used and have been wrong for 40 years now at least.

Are YN's great to have in the hobby? Of course. Everyone should spend time to encourage them and help them. Will this hobby die out if there are no YN's? Absolutely not.

 

One more thing. I grew up in the sixties and was introduced to coin collecting by my father. Back then you didn't care all that much about a coins condition while filling a hole in a book.......you reveled in the fact that you found one. If you ordered stuff from the mint you had to do it via the US Mail and the offerings basically only consisted of proof and mint sets. I used to look through a '65 Red Book and dream of owning a Stone Mountain or Daniel Boone commemorative, but I couldn't afford one in those days. I'd look longingly at the pages and ask myself 'why did they stop this program'? Many of us know the answer to that but the fact remains that there was very little available from the US Mint. I'm quite happy with the fact that the mint avails us a much larger selection of products than what I experienced as a young man, and I'm happy with the fact that I can visit a website and view all of those offerings. I enjoy the laser etching on proof coins and the satin finish on silver eagles. Those who would compare the hobby of coin collecting ,and it's inevitable demise, to the rise and fall of 'Beanie Babies' are only in the hobby for one thing.........money. If you can't make money on something then it ain't no good. Well then, you're not a hobbyist, you're an investor and as such have no place in the hobby for a true hobbyist seeks not personal gain.

 

I think there are two ways to collect.
I collect Stamps...thats my thing...my field of expertise...accumulating knowledge over 50 years and losing all sense of enjoyment.
It is not enjoyable. It is an obsession.

But I "collect" (possibly too strong a word) other things from the perspective of nostalgia...bubblegum cards, cigarette cards, phonecards, toy soldiers.
I would have said that "coins" fell into that category but its probably only in the last week or so that I would really admit to myself that I am a Coin Collector.
Of course I lack decades of accumulated knowledge.
And yet I think if I can confine myself to the limits of enjoyment....cheap circulated coins of Ireland and Britain (the coins that would have been in my pocket for over five decades). and USA (from a sense of curiosity).
I just read last night that effectively only 1c 5c 10c 25c coins circulate in USA. Higher value coins (I am told) have limited circulation.....and while older coins within that range are difficult, it doesnt seem impossible to enjoy a hobby.

Like I say Stamps....to me...might be Primary. But the more I know, the less enjoyable it seems.
Coins are ....to me....secondary....but the less I know, the more enjoyable it seems.