Last coin of 2014: Trajan's Column denarius

Very nice little video TIF.

 

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=> ahahaha man AJ, if that's your idea of settling, then I may as well toss my whole collection into the trash?!!

... both of this thread's example-coins "ROCK" (congrats to both of you)

 

And if you can throw your collection into the trash, where does that leave mine? Yeah these are great examples in my book.

 

That would make for an unpleasant resting place for your coins! I'd suggest continuing to be their caretaker

The reason for not wanting to "settle" for coins with slight issues is because of some advice I received from a dealer when first starting out: don't buy "but" coins. Meaning, don't buy a coin that you think to yourself, "I really like it, but, ..."

This isn't to be applied in an elitist manner; rather, it is relevant to any grade level. A wholesome, well-centered, coin in good metal with solid detail and a grade of Fine or VF may be vastly superior to a MS coin with an irregular strike. Everyone has their preferences and attributes they focus on.

Comparing my example to TIF's, I like the overall shape of her coin more, the obverse lettering, and reverse die (which is more artistic than mine). Flan splits are a factor I personally try to avoid, but many people don't mind them. My obverse has slightly less wear but overall, I pick TIF's coin over mine.

So, while I'm glad to have an example of the type, I do consider it to be a placeholder, although I might be waiting for a while to find a better one. I was an underbidder on the most expensive example to sell (which doesn't necessarily mean it's the best): http://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=2013002 - it's definitely nicer than mine or TIF's but it has an edge split and a scratch beneath the bust on the obverse and it still isn't perfectly centered on the reverse.

The hunt continues...

 

Thanks - I am quite far behind on posting new purchases. And, with an auction tomorrow morning, I will hopefully be even farther behind shortly!

 

Oops missed this one, trajanus has some very nice reverses hadrian is missing that.

 

Well, no offense but I hope it takes you a long time to find a replacement. I'd like more time to enjoy having a coin you slightly prefer to one you own.

Seriously though... you make a very good point about the decision process applying to all grade levels.

 

Well, best of luck to you! May you win every coin you bid on.

 

We have seen two obverses much superior to this one:

but this one at least has the statue of Trajan fully on the flan.
RIC 292 (says "112-114"), BMC 454, Hill 618 (says "114").

 

Did you notice that each of the three "nice but" examples are struck on slightly oval flans which, had they blank been rotated 90 degrees, would have included the top of the column. It appears that the striker intentionally placed the blanks on the die in horizontal format even though this particular design was extremely vertical. I note that acsearch currently shows about ~20 Trajans with full columns including a really nice one that sold in 2013 for 240 GBP on a 100 GBP estimate. Other than that one, most had other "buts" but the huge numbers of this popular type pretty much guarantee that you will be able to upgrade these spaceholders and send them to Steve. He will need new coins since Bing and I have already started on our journey North to pick through his trash. He won't be able to change his mind and fish them out later.

I only buy "but" coins and expect to get a suitable discount for each and every "but". I could have passed up many coins with big problems but that would have meant I never would have had an example of the coin. My most recent is that horrid scab of a doublestrike where it looks like Constantius Gallus was wearing a diadem. There is only one person in the world who finds that interesting and he owns that coin. Dealers who advise against "but" coins are investment counselors not numismatists. You can play different if you never plan to sell your coins. There is nothing wrong with having high standards and buying the finest you can find. Our difference is what we do when the finest available is a "but" like a half dozen of my favorite Septimius Severus denarii which are hard enough to find with multiple "buts".

Let me also point out that there are positive "buts". For my Septimius collection, a big positive is "but Martin doesn't have one". The British museum has a denarius I was looking forward to buying "but" it was recognized as Septimius overstruck on Pescennius Niger so it got pulled from the sale it should have been in. Can you imagine both a museum and I preferred a messy coin to a mint state one? Overall my favorite seems to be "but I want it".

 

Wow! This one still is on the horizontal oval flan but is missing the bottom of the column instead of the statue. If the striking crew had just put the flans on the other way, all these coins would be great.

 

Is there really a need to spit upon any mention of someone who seeks out their own personal quality by assuming coins are being held solely for "investment" purposes? I would have thought that sometime in my hundreds of posts on this forum it would become evident that I'm not some "speculator" looking to flip coins.

This approach would never be offered by an "investment advisor" as it causes far fewer coins to be purchased over all. It instills an awareness that there are a lot of coins available, and that there will be opportunities to buy others if one is patient. Everyone has a finite budget, so why tie up funds in a coin you somewhat like when there might be one coming up in a month that ticks all of the attributes you're seeking? I don't intend to sell my coins, and even if I did, it wouldn't change my approach.

I take offense, on behalf of the expert numismatist (not "investment advisor") who taught me the mentality of holding out for coins that meet everything for which you're looking. I truly don't understand the biases held by some members here: people should be able to collect as they please, slab coins as they please, buy common coins, buy rare coins, buy low grade coins, or buy high grade coins. If I don't like coins with edge splits, and a coin is an otherwise great example, I'll pass on it, when others will gladly buy it. There's nothing wrong with buying these coins; edge splits are just a "but" to me.

Obviously, there are coins that are rare or obscure enough where it isn't possible to wait for a better example, but does trying to find coins that speak to ones self without factors that bother them really preclude someone from "collecting" and owning coins to enjoy them? Does it really put them somehow into this negative class of "investors" (which I can only assume means "someone who spends more than $X")?

I'd suggest this approach for anyone spending $1/year or $50M/year. If that makes everyone seeking their personal view of quality an "investor" then we'd better watch out!

 

While I don't often find myself in disagreement with Doug's viewpoints, this is an exception where I agree with AncientJoe. Doug's blanket generalization above is not supported by my experience.

This is not to say that such dealers don't exist; but in fact the best dealers are those who understand your collecting desires and orientation, and put forth their best efforts to advise you on the acquisition of each specific coin, using their own experience to evaluate whether you (as the collector) will be happy with that coin in your collection. To do anything less would be manipulative and deceptive.

Remember, a dealer who advises against purchasing a coin is actually losing a commission and/or sale, so he is advising against his own financial self-interest. A good dealer does this to retain his customers in the long run. My own dealer has never recommended that I buy a coin that wouldn't be appropriate for my collection, nor has he advised me to buy a coin outside my collecting interests simply for investment purposes. Never has my dealer ever represented that a coin purchase would be a good investment.

It seems to me that Doug is not "... only buy[ing] "but" coins...;" rather, he's applying the same thought process to a coin purchase that we all do: namely, does the coin appeal to him and fit his criteria for being added to his collection? It's just that his criteria isn't the same as AncientJoe's or mine; it's OK if his criteria is "there's something wrong with this coin" since that's in itself criteria for collecting.

De gustibus non est disputandum.

 

Even if it's a coin you're bidding on?

 

I'm sorry I offended but my experience has been considerably different from yours. When a dealer advises against a coin, I find it usually means he does not have the coin. I have been told by a dealer that the only coins of Septimius Severus worthy of collecting are those of the Rome mint because the others were just trash. I admit considerable prejudice against any dealer who tells youth and older beginners that there is no place for them in the hobby if they don't spend $1000 a coin. I was not treated that way by Joel Malter and Frederick Knoblock back when I was starting and it irks me to no end when I see it now. The hobby of US coins once was enjoyed by kids and old men who pulled pennies from their change. Now kids are told that RAW coins are only good for spending. After 50 years of collecting I have purchased not one $1000 coin (tops was $991 and it is a "but" coin since I have seen a better specimen) but I have enjoyed and, I feel, benefited from the several thousand imperfect coins I have owned. I tire of hearing the opinion that my way of collecting is only for fools. We each can select the features we value most for our acquisitions. I'm fine with those who can afford and be satisfied by MS70 ancients pursuing them. I only ask that they allow the rest of us the dignity of pursuing a different course.

I will make every effort never again to comment here on a coin based on its grade or value.

 

I like this.

I must confess, that I do not see the problem in this thread. One contributor expresses his/her opinion and another his or her opinion. Isn't that what we ask for when we post a coin or opinion?

 

Such coins and blessed efforts are an additive clear proof that Numismatics is in the service of History and Science.

 

I'm with you Bing---I just reread the posts and I'm still puzzled why anyone takes offense at another individuals opinion...

I would prefer to purchase the best of the best but that would be unrealistic...but I try to avoid 'settling' too much since I have found one collectors advice to continue to ring true--'an ugly coin gets uglier each passing day..'

Yet my 'budget' requires me to buy within my means, even if it is a lesser coin than I would ideally prefer---each having its own charm while still satisfying my passion for collecting as many Ancients as I reasonably can....

I believe everyone is saying basically the same thing...

 

I'm pretty sure most of the collectors here value your knowledgeable and objective comments on all aspects of ancient coins, including a coin's grade and value, so I would encourage you not to stop offering them.

It appears I've been much more fortunate than you in my interactions with dealers, but of course I've been collecting far fewer years than you so have not had the "opportunity" to run into those less-than-scrupulous dealers. If I had, I certainly would have stopped dealing with them immediately, so I understand and share your attitude toward such dealers.

BTW, your comment "The hobby of US coins once was enjoyed by kids and old men who pulled pennies from their change." touched a nostalgic and joyful period when I was very young (in the 1950s) and would indeed pull older American coins from circulation for my various denomination (pennies, nickels, half dollars, etc.) collections. The thrill of finding an old coin in my parents' change is one that I still remember to this day, and despite the always less-than-perfect condition of these coins, is a thrill that was every bit as exciting as adding new coins to my current 12 Caesars collection. Thanks for reminding me of this.

 

=> one man's "but-coin" is another man's trophy-coin!!

100% => you fricken rock, Doug (please don't stop feeding info to us ancient coin newbies!!)



cheers, brother