This scum bag is a real winner....need your help again

You're right, that did sound condescending and that wasn't my intent at all. My personal apologies to you Vic.

 

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It is better to be thought of as an idiot than to assail with a keyboard and remove all doubt.

 

The guy didn't join the NGC forums or make his first post til yesterday, so chances are that he was likely alerted to the mud-fest, and isn't unreasonable that he would take the time to defend himself.

 

This post I believe has gone way too far. Every time there is a reply, we validate this guy's nuttiness. In reality this post should be taken down because he's dragging someone through the mud. We don't know if this guy really is a scam artist or not. The listing doesn't show evidence of scams. You have eBay buyer protection and PayPal protection. So if there's anything wrong with the lot, the person is protected. I just hope whoever bought the lot knows the difference between a real silver dollar and a fake one. Or any of the silver coins at that.

 

You may have read all the post, the question is did you comprehend what you read?

Whether or not if the seller is “versed enough in coins to read and post on the NGC board” means nothing. If you bothered to check, you would have noticed that the seller joined the Message board at NGC the day after the OP started his assault (which is perfectly understandable).

Is there a “Scum-bag” here? Yes, either the seller or the OP. I will wait a few weeks to see if positive feedback is left for the seller and if so then we will all know who the “Scum-bag” is (he is probably some 40 year old hiding in his mommies’ basement behind his keyboard that started this thread).

All I know is that I have asked for his eBay name twice and the OP is chicken to give it (running for the dark corners to hide) but he had no problem providing the sellers name and eBay information.

As Hommer said:

 

I'm going to agree to disagree with you on this one books. someone alerted him? his avid coin buddies that read the ngc forum but didn't offer to help him go through the collection? even with a newly created account I'm not convinced that this doesn't smell bad. so the guy doesn't know enough about coins to figure out what he has but he has all these educated numismatic friends that didn't help him with his collection but did alert him to the libel? to me the most statistically likely answer is there is more to the story of op vs eBay guy and that is how he found out about it. i have an idea that the op had been taken advantage of by this guy and now posting on websites as a response. but that is just my conjucture. i don't have a dog in this fight.

so now I'm not able to comprehend what i read? just because someone takes a minority position does not mean they are intellectually impaired. i think the op is 99% likely to be right about this being a put together "unsearched" lot. that would make that a felony to misrepresent an object in a business transaction in the state of nevada, and I'm guessing in all the rest as well.

why is the person guilty of coin crimes the guy who buys a misrepresented item. in any other example people would side on the side of the buyer, not the seller. but on coin talk the felony is being dumb enough to be taken advantage of. interestingly this happens in all other walks of life yet is ok in coins? cars with known defective parts or rolled back odometers, doctors knowingly preforming unnecessary procedures to bill, lawyers adding extra hours to their bill, pharmacies selling fake drugs the list goes on and on. according to coin talk logic, the person buying the false product is "allowing the person to take advantage of them and it is always their own fault" to quote one of the more educated posters here. so now i have to go to medical school prior to going to the doctor because if i trust the doctor I'm the idiot? when i buy a car if i don't personally inspect the odometer and have then knowledge to know when it has been adjusted I'm the one at fault? according to coin talk group think yes that is my fault because i let them take advantage of me.

i just strongly disagree with the idea the victim is always to blame when coin fraud occurs. sorry.

 

It's common for someone to invite the other party to these type of threads. Sometimes they will join and tell the other side of the story. It's good to know both sides. I would bet someone contacted the seller about this thread as well. It's also common for the OP to be in the wrong but I'm not saying that is the case in this thread.

I have the feeling there is much more to this story than we will ever know. I don't care for the way the seller listed his auction or the way the OP posted the two threads.

 

I thought incompetence was when one had to wear 'Depends'.........

 

for someone to have contacted the eBay seller they would have to know his real name and contact info. they would also have to be avid readers of the ngc board. it to me seems highly unlikely that someone who has so little experience with coins that they are just throwing it all on eBay unsorted would also have very numismatically educated friends that care enough to know the guys real name from eBay and alert him to the smear campaign but would not care enough about the guy to sort the collection. it seems way more likely that the guy really is selling put together unsearched lots and saw his name smeared.

bottom line. the eBay guy's friend would have to know the guys real and eBay name. seems highly unlikely. my friends don't know my eBay name.

there is nothing wrong with hearing two sides of every story. but because there are two sides doesn't make them morally equivalent. a convicted child sex offender has a side to the story but frankly I'm not very interested in it.

where we do agree is our belief the story goes deeper then one heroic crusader fighting the good fight.

 

Right on that Vic.......

 

The victim is always to blame when coin fraud occurs. Because the numismatic community can wash there hands off and don't have to respond and react
to this issue

 

Sorry but that's wrong. You can contact any seller that has active items listed.
I have watched this same situation happen a hundred times over the years and it's not usually a friend that brings the seller into the thread.

 

One other thing to keep in mind. There are folks on the different forums with inside connections to ebay. They can make things happen.

 

Go to the original listing on page 1.
Scroll down to the ASK A QUESTION tab.
Tell the seller he is being trashed and where he is being trashed.

Simple.

 

very simple

 

To contact the seller during an auction one just has to ask a question about the item . IIRC It can be done the same way afterward .

 

Two things jump out at me from reading the listing in the OP:

1. If the list is not accurate, why did he put it there to begin with? Maybe this doesn't cross the line into fraud but it's certainly misleading and unethical.

2. I would bet that if the buyer attempts to return the coins for a refund, the seller will remember that some of them are missing...

 

Vegas Vic,
Sorry but you are assuming that there is a “victim” here. The only possible victim would be the buyer and I think we need to wait to see what feedback is left first (if positive then there was no victim besides maybe the seller for having his name and reputation dragged through the mud).

In reference to your claim that: “bottom line. the eBay guy's friend would have to know the guys real and eBay name. seems highly unlikely. my friends don't know my eBay name.”
It probably wasn’t even a friend that reached out to the seller to notify him of the thread discussing the auction. I believe it has been illustrated already that anyone can contact the seller of an auction on eBay and I imagine that someone on the NGC board did just that to find out the other side of the story. I have noticed similar threads (usually more investigative and less accusatory) in the past on both NGC and PCGS message boards and Mark Feld had commented that he indeed did contact the seller with questions and referred the thread in question (I do not know if this is what happened this time or if it was someone else but where the seller responded on NGC I am assuming that is where the seller was notified).

I would be curious to know if the OP was from Indianapolis and if this is just sour grapes that the seller would not cancel the auction and sell off of eBay. I notice that in the seller’s response on NGC he states that: “I also had some stalker from Indianapolis who somehow figured out my email and phone number and has been calling me like 30 times a day trying to get me to cancel the auction and sell it to him outside of ebay. He's also called my 79 year old Mom and pestered her too. He's completely nutso. I called ebay and they said that account had been hacked.”

I will have to disagree with you on what constitutes an unsearched roll / hoard. I do not collect Morgan dollars. An individual that lives in my area inherited his grandfather’s collection and was going to sell them at a local pawn shop for spot. There were 105 coins and I told him that they might be worth more then spot but he didn’t care, he had them for over six month and he stated that while he liked looking at them, he just wanted the money. As far as he was concerned, the lot was unsearched and he wasn’t making any promises as to what was there. This guy didn’t even know where to look for the mint mark let alone, what a VAM was or the different states of grading. Even thou he had looked at every coin several times over an extended time period, I still agreed with him that the lot was unsearched and agreed to buy them for 10% above spot. After buying the coins, checking them for VAMS, key dates and condition, I looked the guy back up a few weeks later and gave him an extra $500 (if I sell, I will still make money).

Just because someone looked at a bunch of coins, if they didn’t know what they were looking for, doesn’t mean that it was a searched lot.

Again, as far as the OP and this thread are concerned, the proof will be in the pudding when feedback is left, either positive or negative.

EDITED: For Spelling

 

This sums up something that I've been trying to put into words for a while.

There may well be "unsearched lots" still out there -- hoards or small deposits of coins that nobody has ever searched with a numismatic goal.

But there are also what I'd almost call "anti-searched lots" -- lots that have been assembled by a collector, possibly a knowledgeable one, but have then fallen into the hands of someone who has no interest in numismatics. This can happen due to inheritance, or theft, or carelessness, or simple lack of interest.

Most of us who collect coins would say this is a terrible thing -- someone spent a lot of time, money, and attention to assemble a nice collection, and then died/was robbed/donated the coins to someone who just spent them or took them to a pawn shop.

But that's a critical part of the engine that drives our hobby. Many coins that are "lost" are actually put into a position where they can be "found" again by someone who knows what he/she's looking for. I've called this "the circle of numismatic life" before.

A couple of my better "scores" have been from these "anti-searched" lots. One was a lot of Peace dollars -- a bit less than a roll, I think -- that I bought on eBay from a local pawnshop. I didn't realize they were local, so I was a bit miffed when I won at something like a $60 premium over the going rate for ordinary Peace dollars AND got socked with state sales tax. But that lot included a 1921 that went MS62 at ANACS, and a 1934-S that got AU-50; I could just about cover the cost of the lot by selling those two, even now that the price of silver has plummeted.

Another was a lot of junk and culls that I bought for a good bit over the value of the silver it contained -- I paid something like $160 for it. But it included a holed Trade dollar that turned out to be a proof-only issue (since authenticated by PCGS), a dark 1925-S Buffalo that I sold for $55 at a show, a verdigris-heavy 1931-S Lincoln, a corroded 1912-S V-nickel, and enough other damaged-but-still-valuable stuff to pay for itself several times over, and give me hours of entertainment.

Maybe eventually everything will be in slabs, and this kind of fun will stop. I don't expect my (so far nonexistent) grandchildren will live to see the day, though.