To Dip, or not to Dip, that is the question.

Howdy. I've got this here 1908 D barber quarter that I've had for a while now. It has some light to what I would consider dusty subdued toning on the obverse in light oranges turning blue. I've also been thinking about having it go in with a group to NGC here in a while, but I'm torn about what to do with the quarter. NGC and I have been having a rough time because they keep returning some of my Washingtons "artificially" toned and some come back no problem, this despite the fact that they all came out of the same Dansco album. So I wonder if this gets a quick bath whether NGC would find that more to their liking. As for me, I am torn on the coin, I like the toning, but it could be more vibrant and I like white coins as well, if they have good luster, which I can't tell if the luster is impaired under this one.

 

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Screw what they like. It's your coin it's what you like that matters. You are the customer. It is they who are suppose to jumps through hoops, not the other way around. Sorry, but you did ask.

 

Is this a good variety ? The mint mark ( D ) looks crooked ??

 

I like the original look of it as is.

 

Lawrence lists 5 mm locations for this date, he doesn't call any of them rare. The coin is listed as an R2 for both AU and MS specimens which is why I am sending it in.

 

The obverse looks very unattractive. It has an appearance consistent with artificial toning which has turned, or gone bad. I don't know what the underlying surfaces look like (if they have been damaged by the gunk on top) - but in this case a judicious dip and a thorough rinse might be beneficial.

Based on the dull luster, and fields which seem to display a number of fine tickmarks, I'd expect a max grade of 62 (maybe 63 if the dip turns out very well).

 

dip it , why not just wiz it like another fool

 

Hmm, I can see your conundrum OP. While this bluish hue can be indicative of previous AT, it can also occur naturally as a normal state, (although rarer). I think I would lean towards sending it in as is and seeing if it gets slabbed. I am not one to shy away from a properly done dip, but seeing that the luster looks subdued anyway I am worried a dip, even if properly done, could make the coin very flat and lifeless. I am pretty convinced it has been dipped in the past based upon the reverse.

 

ANY acid dip removes metal - odds are that it was previously dipped, didn't work out, was AT to cover this up and dipping again will destroy it.

 

I don't believe in dipping. The coin will then should come back "cleaned" which lowers it's value. I've been taught never ever clean your coins.

 

Never Dipped, Never will....OK, not entirely true; I've cleaned junk coins in many various ways. The before and after experience is valuable to more readily identify those that have been so "correctly" damaged.

 

I do find the knowledge of coin cleaning and collectors fascinating on all levels and the built in inhibitions collectors have and rightfully so - recently I created my own Coin Cleaner for copper coins built on flurocarbon technology like the Original Coin Care. Normally if a coin is in Mint State its not a good idea to clean it. From what I can gather based on some information I received the average time spent by a NGC grader on a coin is about 1-2 minutes. I am sure they use stereo microscopes to examine the surface of coins as I currently do but for different purposes - studying contemporary circulating counterfeits. So hairline scratches in a circular pattern is easily identified in some cases if not careful. In either case sulfur and chlorides as indicated in that simplistic William Weimer Coin Chemistry book on why coins tone are the reasons coins tone and I do prefer rainbow coins myself actually rather than BLAST WHITE say on Morgans or late 19thC Federal Red Book types - I would leave it alone. Leave any gold or silver coin alone in Mint State unless there is severe oxidation which is rare in terms of it being unpleasing. There are services. My cleaner was specifically designed to remove thin film copper oxides off of circulated coppers without "any" surface changes to the copper surface. Realize that removing 200 years of copper patina off a coin will have a patina surface appearance change but much better than a green film surface.

So in this case leave it alone - submit it ...

John Lorenzo
Numsiamtist
United States

 

Dip the left side, I like the toning on the right.

 

Regarding the dip, I don't have an opinion on it either way, but I will ask that if you do dip it, I'd like to see the after product...I've not really had a lot of opportunity to see a coin which is 100% certifiable for sure known to have been dipped, because someone posted before pics and said that they may dip it I'd like to see the after pics if you decide to go ahead with it.

About your experience with NGC grading some of your quarters AT and some not even though they were all in the same album would have me HIGHLY frustrated. I'd probably be on the phone chewing someone out over my money which was "not so well spent." This is part of the reason I hesitate even sending anything in to be graded. From what I've picked up its a crap shoot as to whether you get graders who woke up on the right side of the bed that day or not.

 

Is this an assumption for every coin graded or are you saying they would do this for a coin which they feel has suspicious (in this case) toning or other issues. Certainly they don't grade every coin with a stereo microscope.

I realize this video may be a bit old, but form NGCs website, they don't show the grading room with any microscopes.

http://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/grading-process/index.aspx#video

I'm not trying to start a debate here, just curious...When I was new to this I had assumed that high power magnification was always used, but from what I've picked up its not the norm.

 

I also doubt a few minutes is allowed per coin, more like a few seconds. Well, to be fair, at this point 80% of submissions must be things like ASE's to pimp on HSN and the like.

 

I have never dipped a coin--although I have thought about it. In the book--"The Coin Collectors Survival Manual" they say there is one coin service that has had great results in what they call "coin Conservation". The company is NCS. Supposedly a coin that they work on always comes back at a higher value. They also suggest calling them before sending in a coin. they will tell you if they think it's worthwhile to send it in or not. If I was ever to think about dipping or anything else along those lines that is the only company I would consider

 

leave it alone

 

I guess one question I forgot to ask does this coin have a cartwheel surface effect? If yes - do not touch - maybe that's your trigger to submit (as is) or don't submit?

JPL