PVC Removal

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Steve66, Feb 4, 2015.

  1. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    Amen.

    The precautions are simple: don't use a plastic vessel, avoid nitrile gloves, don't guzzle the stuff, and don't use an ether mask to inhale it, don't smoke a stogey while using it, and both you and your coins will be fine.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2015
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  3. Steve66

    Steve66 Coin People

     
  4. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I'm still puzzled myself about which part of my response constituted "tough talk (macho attitudes)". If I'm inadvertently hurting someone's feelings, I'd like to understand why.

    See, this is exactly the kind of misinformation that I'm trying to correct. Gasoline gives you a significantly increased risk of blood cancer (from the benzene it contains), liver damage, and kidney damage, just from chronic exposure (even if you never suffer acute effects). Acetone doesn't; as another poster said, it's produced naturally in your body anyhow, and your body has effective mechanisms for clearing it. Acetone also biodegrades in the environment, breaking down completely over a period of weeks; gasoline, not so much.

    As plenty of people have said here, and as every can will warn you, acetone is HIGHLY FLAMMABLE, and moderately toxic. Don't leave it open indoors where the vapor can build up. Don't use it near sources of ignition. If you have rags soaked in it, put them outside until they dry; it evaporates quickly from paper or rags, which means it can build up to dangerous concentrations indoors while that's happening.
     
    BadThad likes this.
  5. krispy

    krispy krispy

    Precautions are fine. We've discussed this material many times before, hence why I could anticipate that after advising the OP about working safely and being aware of risks in handling such materials, that there would be push back in the form of tough talk that downplays the precautions and risks of handling it. As we have seen, that attitude came in waves of bravado, by those who just couldn't resist the urge to indulge their egos rather than support safe practice for the OP. Thank you all for proving me right. Jim you are not one of them, but you are doing a lot to support their manner and such ilk. I would assume that as a Chemistry professor with your years of experience that you have seen the effects of some chemicals over time on people, as well as attitudes towards usage and safety change over time and I am sure you have taught or your institution requires educating your students in safe handling practice in your labs/facilities. Also, Jim, it doesn't take a college Chemistry professor to intelligently handle these materials, so throwing around your weight in that regard is unnecessary. If it were that difficult, it would require a license to obtain such materials and since they sell this stuff in Walmart and at home centers, you can see it doesn't require such advanced skills, so your credentials do little to win this argument.

    It's rather unfortunate that others wouldn't advise inexperienced people with taking enough precautions when they are just starting out working with this material. Like I said, they will not be such braggarts if someone goes and melts their pipes or breathes too much and becomes ill, maybe falls and hurts themselves because they took the wrong idea about using this stuff. But the onus will be on them for not taking the opportunity as I have, to underscore safe handling, respecting the potential of these materials and protecting one's self and property, as well as your coins.
     
  6. krispy

    krispy krispy

    Puzzled again! Well, it's close to bed time I guess...

    Let's see. Acetone is naturally occurring and expelled quickly from the body. So presents little risk to health they say, yet it's a skin irritant as well as an iritant to soft tissues like: nose, eyes, throat, lungs. Sure it passes from your body in as little as a few minutes or a few days. But repeated exposure can/does have an effect on some people. Can you or the OP measure the parts per million of evaporated acetone in the air around you/them? Not likely. Yet there are tolerances that OSHA provides for maintaining and venting for safe work spaces. The point is, you can't control all the factors and account for each individual's body chemistry, their reaction to the stuff and the consequences of long term health impact, let alone look out for potential damage to property and environment. Rather than everyone debating this so generally, simply exercise the higher position of caution and prevention. Suggest wearing a proper respirator, work in a well ventilated area, wear goggles and protect skin with gloves, dispose of papers and rags in a fire-can, explain not to dump in a sink where you wash foods and dishes, that may have PVC pipes, etc. Everyone has tried so hard to debunk risk avoidance when all they ought to be doing is helping the OP be safe when handling such things.
     
  7. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    But, I have had my say, and so publish away
     
  8. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    What is it about acetone that makes people think it is dangerous. We have had this discussion over and over and over. All the evidence presented say it is safe (at least with reasonable care). All of those with any degree of familiarity with chemistry say it is safe. And yet people keep arguing that it is poison/carcinogenic/deadly. Yet somehow everyone here had a mother who regularly used it. It is as bad as the measles vaccine. No one wants to believe the experts.
     
    BadThad likes this.
  9. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    It only takes an ounce or two for each bath. I use shot glasses and keep it covered so there is not a problem with fumes.
     
  10. jay4202472000

    jay4202472000 Well-Known Member

    I'm starting to think that Krispy sells HAZMAT suits for a living.
    Just joking Krispy.
     
  11. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    I started using it in 1965 (in college). I have never used it from any other than a plastic bottle. Now that is not to say you can put it in any plastic bottle, but many will work. The literature says to use LDPE, but I just looked at my wife's nail polish remover and it says HDPE. (Both are #2 for recycling.)
     
  12. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I think at this point I agree more than disagree with what you've written. I don't think a respirator will do any good, but it won't do any harm. Some folks will quibble about gloves, but I don't have strong feelings one way or the other. Ventilation and careful disposal -- yep, absolutely.

    Chronic exposure should be controlled, but it doesn't accumulate in your body over time, and it isn't tied to long-term health problems (unlike, say, gasoline or formaldehyde). All the same, we agree that you should handle it responsibly; try to minimize exposure, and try to minimize waste disposal by using as little as possible.
     
    krispy likes this.
  13. Steve66

    Steve66 Coin People

    It did leave a funny taste in my mouth :vomit:

    No, really I appreciate all the help on this subject. Acetone is, or can be a dangerous chemical, just as many other chemicals are dangerous if not used properly. I have used acetone before, just not on coins.

    I think a little common sense can go a long way...

    Thanks All
     
    krispy likes this.
  14. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    Sorry, I misspoke. LDPE is #4 for recycling.
     
  15. krispy

    krispy krispy

    Thanks to Jim, I'm now an "Acetone Guru" :D
     
  16. joecoincollect

    joecoincollect Well-Known Member

    I know rubbing a coins is bad, but sometimes the PVC damage warrants gentle rubbing with a qtip soaked with acetone. Try using the more fluffy q-tips or pull the cotton out a little so it's not so stiff, then soak it and get the thicker sheens of PVC off. You will see the light blue PVC color on your q tip. I've soaked before and it just doesn't cut it sometimes. If I chose to use q tips with unc coins (proof coins I wouldn't suggest at all) I'd be very gentle and only swab them if I felt the benefits out weighed the risks (eg hairlines). I know some will say never to use q tips but trust me, I've saved a lot of coins from further PVC contamination and no trace is evident despite the naysayers. Pressure, fluffiness, and heavy soaking of the q tip is key. Sometimes when the PVC damage has advanced too far, you cannot rid the blue spots here and there. No swabbing or dip will get rid of it. All you can do is essentially leave it on or scratch it off and leave a minute crater that is metal colored.
     
  17. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    If you're going to use a q-tip, I'd advise not swabbing (i.e. rubbing), but rolling the q-tip over the surface, and try not to roll the same portion of the q-tip over the coin twice. (That is, 1 revolution of the tip at most.)

    I used to work at a company that made and used world-class optical equipment, and this method is how we'd clean lenses (although we used isopropyl alcohol instead of acetone). It helps prevent dragging crud over the surface of the coin, reducing the possibility of hairlines.

    That said, PVC can really eat into a coin, so you might have to resort to swabbing if multiple soaks and gentle q-tipping don't work.
     
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