So there was this fake Trade Dollar...

Okay, you have a picture of the exception, rather than the rule. I reiterate what I said--TPGs are pretty good at spotting fakes, and altered coins. Of course there are exceptions, but it is like last night's game--the TPG passes on 1 yard and goal with 3 downs, and doesn't blow the call most of the time. This is their business to get it right, and they do, 99% of the time.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

But the fact that it's their business is part of the problem for our hobby.

In any case, if someone wants employ a TPG to get verification, I'm not discouraging them.

I'm simply happy to give an alternative where you don't have to blow $125 to get a coin verified within the 5 days eBay gives you to do so (which isn't guaranteed, given shipping times) so you can get your purchase price back and not let the counterfeiter turn around and do it to the next guy while at the same time provide some accountability along with it.

Then imagine the coin was a $100 purchase. Or a $50 purchase. Or it was a lot of X coins for that total price. Employing a TPG becomes a major barrier.

 

Steve,

I appreciate the effort and example, which is one worthy of discussion, but hindsight is 20/20. It is easy to look back and point the finger at PCGS for this, but they were generally accepted varieties at one time. They're also contemporary, which puts them on a different level than a modern counterfeit produced for the sole purpose of bringing collectible premiums. Now please understand that I am fully aware that both PCGS and NGC have slabbed counterfeits as genuine; I even posted one in an NGC holder in a past thread that went unnoticed except for a few gentlemen familiar with the source, but such mistakes can be immensely educational, and is why I am hoping, if you indeed are in possession of such material, will still share them with the board at your earliest convenience.

 

Very good thread , I hope it continues . Steve I'd love to see your better examples too .

 

Not NGC, they only slabbed 8 of them before they came to the conclusion they were fakes. PCGS continued slabbing them for another 8 years.

 

Go to page 4 of this thread http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=907764&STARTPAGE=4
to see an (allegedly) fake trade dollar slabbed by pcgs not too long ago and verified by them as genuine when sent back for a review by the owner.

 

How could they miss those pock marks ?

 

yes. and the reverse lettering, much of it, is rounded and poorly formed. A better than average transfer die forgery IMO. And the owner returned it to pcgs specifically saying it was a fake... which they denied.

 

I always liked PCGS a little more , but with their attitude I now prefer NGC .

 

English speaker?

Gimme a break.

That would not be PC!

 

I guess neither one of us are very PC, Frank ;-)

(It was finally the American-based reps that got the ball rolling, BTW)

 

What ever happened to letting people learn lessons from making mistakes? You may have saved someone from this coin, but you can't save people from themselves.

 

Great point. That's why I don't call 911 when I see someone weaving down the interstate in the wrong direction. How else will people learn to drive defensively?

 

A coin versus a life or death situation. I appreciate the outlandish comparison but not making the connection...

 

You're right; the analogy was too much of a stretch.

My point: How does "letting people learn lessons from making mistakes" justify turning a blind eye to unethical or illegal activity?

Sure, I can't report every bad auction. But saving one or two people from one or two scammers -- well, that seems like it's worth one or two minutes of my time. Maybe even five or ten, once in a while.

Think of it as a hobby.

 

All I was saying was that perhaps the person who would have bought this coin could have bought a CC fake now instead for a lot more money. I understand what was trying to be done, and it's a noble cause, but sometime people have to get stung before they realize they can't play with bees.

 

Another update. I left negative feedback for the seller who knowingly sold counterfeit goods and eBay removed it within a few minutes. Their email response:

"Recently, you opened an eBay Buyer Protection case for 1875-S Trade Dollar Rare Key Date US Mint Silver Coin PQ High Grade. We also received the feedback you left for the transaction, but it's been removed from the seller's feedback profile because of a recent decision on the eBay Buyer Protection case."

"We are real losers. We know it; we can't help it...and we don't care! Sorry, sucka!"

(I kind of added that last part...)

 

This is why I say only buy slabbed coins and from a reputable dealer if you do not know the series like the back of your hand.

 

And just to be clear, I *knew* it was fake. I was trying to "make a difference".

Silly newbie...

 

Dougmeister, your efforts have not gone unnoticed! The flipside of eBay's liberal buyer protections appears to be deleting negative fb for sellers no matter how flagrant their frauds. High five for a great try, you really went above and beyond. Someday this guy will be brought down.