So there was this fake Trade Dollar...

Good question. The 2 or so other fakes I have are struck. I think you are right they (cast fakes) should be smaller.

 

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That's a great idea never thought that. I don't have technology to measure that fine (beyond 1/16 in carpenter speak is a hair) I just go by weight. But I bet the cast fakes have slight discrepancys in diameter and thickness both

 

"Tiny bubbles....."

 

Indeed, that's usually the case, but the precise amount of shrink depends a lot upon the alloy used and a few other factors.

 

A 1 to 2" micrometer or a 8" dial caliper is all you need , lucky I still have my machinist tools . I know they sell pretty accurate dial vernier calipers for coins pretty cheap .

 

Not necessarily. If it's a really good counterfeiter, they can take the contraction into consideration when they make the molds. It might take them some time to get it right, but it's possible.

 

Interesting. now the price has dropped to a mere $275. They are seriously trolling for suckers.

 

The only good thing about all the fake trade dollars is it scares off a lot of people leaving the real ones for me and you

 

thanks for the clarification, I'm not expert but I couldn;t figure out how it was fake from the original pics.

 

Glad to help!

 

Ok guys, help me out.

I've already PM'ed ksparrow and told him. I'm the one who bought the fake on eBay so that I could do my part to keep shady dealers like this from preying on innocent buyers.

I received the coin, and just as the pictures here show so clearly, it is a fake.

I submitted a SNAD claim and the seller quickly responded that I could return it for a full refund. I called eBay and explained it to them. They were nice and said I would just have to wait 3 days then escalate the case.

That happened today and they simply wrote back that I need to return the item to the seller to get my refund.

I was as explicit as I could be in telling them that it was a fake. On multiple phone calls I tried as well.

Do I have any recourse other than returning it to the seller? I obviously bit off more than I can chew. I can file a dispute with my credit card company maybe.

I can't afford to pay this amount next month when the bill comes due. I naively thought that eBay would do the right thing and do it quickly.

 

Well according to another thread here on CT recently, eBay has stated that all you need to do is send back an empty package with tracking. As long as they see that SOMETHING was delivered you get your money

 

Not sure what to recommend here. I didn't realize that eBay had changed their policy to support counterfeit sellers THAT aggressively.

In the past, as I've documented in several threads, eBay did not require me to return counterfeits. If they've changed that policy, it looks like they've decided the counterfeit trade is too lucrative to fight.

Based on the stories others have been telling, you could try returning something else, or an empty package. I don't think I could do it; even if the cause is just, lying about what I'm returning rubs me the wrong way.

Or, of course, you could stamp or scratch "COPY" onto the coin before returning it. There again, you'd probably get away with it, but I'd have a hard time sleeping.

I guess there's also the alternative of going to law enforcement, or reminding eBay that they're facilitating a crime. But if you need the money back sooner rather than later, that's a risky path to take.

Disputing the charge with your CC is likely to trash your status with PayPal and/or eBay. It might be worth contacting PayPal directly, but in my experience, once they find out it's related to an eBay auction, they politely point you to eBay support and hang up.

For heaven's sake, leave explicit negative or at least neutral feedback for the seller. eBay might go so far as to remove it once the refund is processed, but I still have a naive hope that they'd let it stand.

 

You need to tell eBay that:

1) You have proof they know it's fake due to the previous buyer, what transpired there, and how they re-listed it. (If ksparrow could provide an affidavit, that would be keen.) The seller is not only in violation of eBay Policy for selling a replica, but also in violation of Federal Law under Subsection B of the Hobby Protection Act as amended by the Collectible Coins Protection Act which states:

"Any person engaged in the manufacturing, or importation into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, or the sale in commerce, of imitation political or imitation numismatic items shall be subject to the requirements of the Act and the regulations promulgated thereunder."

All replica coins must be marked COPY to certain specifications (under Sec. 304.6) before they are sold. This one was not. As a result you'll be reporting them to the FTC.

2) If you return the item you, too, would be violating Federal Law under the same Act as subsection D clearly states:

"It shall be a violation of subsection (a) or (b) for a person to provide substantial assistance or support to any manufacturer, importer, or seller if that person knows or should have known that the manufacturer, importer, or seller is engaged in any act or practice that violates subsection (a) or (b)."

3) If eBay insists that you return it as a matter of course that they would also be in violation, of the same subsection themselves (subsection D, above) and you'd have to report them to the FTC, too.

I'd be curious how they respond.

And if worse comes to worst, where I cannot endorse bsowa1029's suggestion by any means, as it would be mail fraud -- simply let things happen as God wills it...

 

There we go, I finally compiled an amended copy of the Hobby Protection Act to make it easier to read:

http://fakes.numismetrica.com/collectible-coin-protection-act/

 

Anyone know of a phone number that will get me (no offense) an American, English-speaking eBay representative?

I need to speak to someone that understands concepts such as the Secret Service, why counterfeit coins are wrong, what "illegal" means, etc.

(phone calls yesterday did not go so well...)

 

At this point, I'm pretty sure the response would be "I understand your concerns, but we cannot issue you a refund until you return the disputed item."

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be willing to risk the rent money to take a stand on this. Maybe I'd feel more noble if I did, but it's awfully cold out there.

 

Ugh. That's not a problem that I've had -- I've generally called in the evening, Eastern time zone, and gotten an American-sounding rep. Of course, it's been a few months -- that might be yet another thing that's gone downhill.

 

Forget about it and consider it a lesson in collecting. DO NOT buy often-counterfeited coin series coins raw, and from a dealer that you do not personally know (one with whom you have an ongoing relationship, and a first-name basis relationship). It is far too risky, especially with Trade Dollars, Seated coins (especially dollars), and good date Morgans.

 

Again, I knew it was counterfeit going in. I was just trying to do my part to help. It's not so cut-and-dried as I would have hoped.