Ceaning or Die polish

Half the other thread is about GDJMSP, correct? In case you believe that there is no dissent in that other thread, I wanted to introduce you to GDJMSP's sidekick on the subject, while staying on topic and not bringing our CT mess onto another forum.

 

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I don't think Physic's comment is about Doug per se, but about the substantive comments about die polishing and die maintenance/repair. It is this substantive information that he was encouraging others to read.

Edited: Realistically, I think Robec, Physics, myself, and others care more about the correct answer than Doug being right or wrong.

 

I've read the other topic. I am familiar with its content. Here on CT I have read the dissent comment and the advice to check out the facts over there. I know the facts. We live them here every day. For GDJMSP this is about inflicting his opinion, regarding Die Polishing, onto others. We have tried substituting the terminology to avoid further pointless discussions. I believe the last two suggestions were "Die Conditioning Lines" and "Die Finishing Lines". It was a no go. Here we are, another topic, the same rant.

I agree with @robec...

 

I've already provided a link to my "Die Finishing Lines" attempt, as quoted in the coinweek article.

Here is a link to the "Die Conditioning Lines" attempt by @Lehigh96 ...

Grade this New Walker Pickup

 

I mainly frequent other forums so I was missing some of the background/context for your post. I understand now. Thanks!

 

Thanks Jason. Someone needed to say that.
To me this is all just terminology.

 

You had your chance to start...


Grade this New Walker Pickup

 

Funny though, the originally posted coin was from Luxembourg. The semantics of what the US Mint calls "die polishing" is irrelevant to the coin in question. As @robec very elegantly posted on the NGC forum, I think you (and others) could benefit from the following:

"I think the main conclusion many collectors want to know is are these lines caused by cleaning or die xxxxxxxxxx (fill in the blank for what ever terminology you want to use).

The average collector doesn't care if you call it die polish, die finishing, die scratch or die stoning. These are all lumped into one category, right or wrong. For us, it just makes it easier to call it cleaning or die polishing."

The point is whether the lines we see on a coin 1) come from the die, or 2) come from post-strike abrasion to the coin's surface. Beyond that differentiation, you are splitting hairs and playing semantic games. And, I think it is a disservice to young numismatists and persons newer to the hobby for you to make absolute statements like "die polishing lines never criss-cross" -- are you intimately aware of the die polishing techniques used in post-WW2 Luxembourg?

 

You don't get it.

I give up.

Cheers.

 

The basic coin collector only wants coins that are problem free. When they are told that hair lines are indicators of cleaning, they will want to know the difference between hair lines and die lines. They don't care how the die line got there, or what method was used. They only want to know the difference and how to tell. I don't think they give two hoots if the lines were put there by a buffer, stone, file or an SOS pad as long as it was done to the die before minting rather than the coin after circulation. Some may eventually want to pursue all the ins and out of die and coin manufacturing methods. Most will not. I love music and used to collect records, but I couldn't tell you the difference between a C sharp and a sharp knife. And I could care less. How they made the record or music didn't matter to me

 

yes, it's ceaning

 

Yeah, agreed. It seems to me the most important thing is, problem coin or not problem coin. Doug, whether you like it or not, these other type of lines are called die polish lines in our hobby. To just blatantly state die polish lines can never criss cross really does do a disservice to a any collector who is trying to to make good decisions and is following your advice.

Picture a collector who come across a really sweet Lincoln at a good price but notices there are criss crossing lines. He might pass on the coin because he remember seeing that "Doug said" die polish lines never cross, and the collector incorrectly concludes the coin must be scratched. What good is that???

Now each individual can take the hobby as deep and as far as they like and learn to distinguish different types of lines and how they got there. That is all up to them, but it seem to me it can be summed up fairly simply.

Lines on the die (Commonly called die polish lines caused from various methods ) = OK
Lines on the coin after it was struck = Not OK

Also, how are you certain that lines caused from a polishing wheel can never criss cross. Is it not possibly the die went under the wheel a second time at a different alignment without totally obliterating the lines from the first Encounter?

 

If they are raised, they're ok.

Mint set quarter...

 

MikeM makes an excellent point in that especially on such a generalized forum, technicals may not matter as much as common perception. The reality is, at least in my experience, that most collectors use "die polish" as a blanket term to cover any/all types of mint made lines that may appear on their coins. This is certainly not to say that this is right, but should be acknowledged. As an example, anyone who has spent a fair amount of time on this forum has most likely experienced a thread in which someone has deemed a coin cleaned or "harshly cleaned" due to the existence of "die polish" lines, and it is not out of the question that some of these people have misunderstood the oft-repeated claim that they "cannot criss-cross".

 

I'll add that the PCGS Grading Guide uses the term "die polish lines" in exactly the same way.

 

So, what does one do, when everybody is wrong?

 

When I look at some of these pictures, the die polishing lines look incuse. I think pictures more from the side might help

 

Have a little faith, in the fact that you're not surrounded by dummies. I'm not asking for an opinion, I'm telling those interested, that the lines on my quarter protrude from the smooth coin surface. Here, I was trying to have a fun "Guess the grade" thread and also got the old, repetitive song and dance...

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/1960-d-d-error-and-guess-the-grade-by-segs.243649/#post-1878857