Featured How to buy US coins that are good values, and not get victimized.

So you are saying that I am not knowledgeable? This is exactly the type intolerable insolence that Toronto et al are complaining about. For the record, I already listed the pitfalls of attending shows and frequenting brick & mortar coin shops in this thread.

Again, it is not your way or the wrong way. There are many ways to become an astute coin collector. And profit margin is not the measure of astute. It is up to each individual to decide what method of collecting and learning works best for them. For those who live near quality local coin shows and reputable B&M shops and work 9-5PM with weekends off, your method might work very well. But what about people who have time consuming jobs, time consuming wives/girlfriends, and time consuming children? For some people, attending shows and visiting coin shops is simply not an option because it would interfere with their busy schedules. But the internet never sleeps, and for some people, it really is the ONLY way to engage the hobby.

 

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I don't think you're allowed to bring up that option. Either you're hitting the pavement and attending coin shows, or you're a troll...

The only time I see the basement of my mom's house, is when I fly in to visit her.

 

Fair enough. I truly get that some simply cannot get to shows, and no good local dealers exist. I grew up in Iowa, and before I left there were no great coin shops left, and the shows were not great, so I know what you mean. In the old days people in that position used mail order dealers, and the internet has replaced them. So, I do agree with you Paul that some people cannot do the show thing. However, everyone can still read good books, converse on the internet with respected numismatists, etc. Education is still needed, though, and if you do not have access to good shows and dealers, then you need to use other avenues even harder. You did that sir, using good books and good websites to study and learn. Heck, I would also say it could be done without good books. Books are a shortcut from learning on your own. If someone took all of the time and effort that authors of good books did, of course they could learn as much as what a good book will teach, it will just take much longer. That is what I mean a good book is a massive shortcut to knowledge in this hobby.

So, yes, a knowledgable numismatist can be created without the aid of some of the great resources. If you simply cannot afford a good book, or simply do not have a good show or dealer nearby, it will just force you to work harder to become knowledgable.

The reason you wish to become knowledgable is multi-fold. First, you get more pleasure from your coins the more you know about them. Paul, I imagine knowing the stories why wartime nickels were part silver, why the 50d is so common in MS, (I am sure you can fill in 50 more stories here about Jefferson nickels), makes your Jefferson nickel collection that much more interesting to you than to others who lack your knowledge of the series. Secondly, by truly being knowledgable you are better able to recognize important rarities and acquire them versus other collectors or dealers. Third, its simply a good time. Is there anything better in life that learning about coins, (things that are G rated)? The internet is a good tool, but truly any idiot can, and do, say whatever misguided advice they wish. A good dealer, or a good book, are sources of trustworthy advice, something that simply cannot be said about the internet. So, its a great tool, but I would never recommend ONLY the internet as the source of education to any collector.

 

I agree with most everything that you have said here, and you know that I am an absolute stickler for internet posters divulging their credentials in order to establish credibility. That said, many B&M dealers are just as big of idiots as those on the internet. How should a newbie differentiate a bullion trader from a true numismatic dealer? On the internet forum, dissenting opinions will allow for the newbie to decide who it disseminating the truth. At the local coin shop, that same newbie is at the mercy of that dealer, whether the dealer knows what he is talking about or not.

 

Your right some of us can't get to shows. Me for example I've never been to one. Do I want to go yes but I am very busy running 2 businesses and at the level I collect would probably be best for me to go to a major show. And unlike Doug and many others there's precious little nearby. There's no major national shows anywhere in New England. Baltimore is about the closest and I wanted to go this fall but I had no money as I was doing a major construction project so I'm relegated to buying online. So far I think I did ok

 

By the same way you know who to believe on the internet or not I suppose. Yes, there is a tremendous loss of quality among local dealers nowadays. Maybe I am getting old, but most I would rate as having less knowledge than I on many numismatic subjects. Going to a regular coin store or show you will have to gauge each dealer and find out which ones are worth listening to, true numismatists, and which ones are simply salesmen who happen to be selling coins at the moment. On CoinTalk, there are tons of fine people here. However, some I will trust their advice implicitly, others I would take with a grain of salt. Paul, if you tell me a 39s in 63 and up is a great sleeper, I would believe you since I trust you know that series much better than most people. If Morgandude talks to me about the toning on a specific Morgan and its market desirability, I will listen. There might even be a topic or two people might want to listen to me about. So no, just being a dealer does not give anyone any weight in my mind, only by demonstrable knowledge do I give anyone's opinion weight.

However, on the flip side, at a show I have had the ability to talk to all of the greats in this hobby, to hear talks from them. How do you put a price on being hear from David Bowers, Harlan Berk, etc ad nauseum. If I didn't go to shows I would have never met nor learned from these greatest numismatists of all. Major coin shows do have a valuable place, and are valuable if you attend.

 

I've never been to a coin show either, and only started buying specialized books pretty far into my numismatic "career". Fact is, depending on your interests, books are not always available and the ones that are may not be viable or quickly become outdated. For example, modern counterfeits of world coins. This is such a dynamic area that references become outdated almost as soon as they come out, for this reason they are virtually non-existent.

 

Books I got quite a few of. There's still a few I'm missing I just haven't found them for sale yet

 

A newbie will not be in a position to question a b&m dealer. No matter how bad the dealer, that dealer will still be more knowledgeable than the new collector, he will have home field advantage (his store), and there will be absolutely nobody to provide a dissenting opinion if the dealer is wrong or lying. On an internet forum, there is always disagreement. All the newbie needs to do is pay attention, read, and decide over a long period of time which members of the forum are credible and which are full of crap. It is much easier to discern who is full of crap on an internet forum than it is to size up a dealer in a store.

I don't doubt that major coin shows have educational value. But let's not pretend that the value is free. Plane tickets cost money, hotel rooms cost money, rental cars/taxis cost money. How do I put a price tag on hearing experts speak? Easy, I add up the costs of attending the show. And though I can't personally speak to this, I imagine it is exceedingly difficult for a guy to tell his wife/girlfriend that he is flying across the country to look at some coins and will be back in a few days.

 

Take them with him. I am going to FUN this year with my wife and two sons.

 

For me the the math also includes lost income. But most important, it all comes down to this. Couldn't I use all that money spent on air fare, hotels and taxi's and just buy a really nice coin?

That works great with children old enough to like coins but for those of us with small children a trip to Disney will result in more family enjoyment then a trip to fun.

 

I consider myself lucky to live in vegas as many events come here to us. While not a major show the pcgs only show is pretty cool. One guy had only six or seven coins at his table but had at least half a million dollars worth of coins there. I got to hold a ngc 1796 25c toned ms63. The guy wanted something around $180k for the thing. I flat out told the guy I couldn't afford to buy it but wanted to see it and he handed it to me to look at.

 

Good stuff. When working with a dealer the first time:
* Know the dealer's return policy
* To ensure you're getting a fair price, ask the dealer: "Would you buy the coin back in a couple of years for this price if I decide to sell?"
* Do your research before buying. Look at past prices and different coins for your variety/year.
There is no substitute for experience. Buy and sell a few coins (i.e. with dealers, online, other collectors, etc.) to get an feel for how the market works.

 

I would add pull out your phone and do a quick ebay search prior to buying to quickly reference options and expected comparable rates.

 

If the answer is "yes", follow up with: "Cool. How do you make money buying coins at the same price you sell them for?"

 

I hope the part in bold is simply poorly written and you meant something else. Otherwise, that does not seem to be a reasonable request.