Featured How to buy US coins that are good values, and not get victimized.

That's exactly why I never buy raw coins from online auctions. Even if a raw coin looks good, I can never be sure that it doesn't have a problem that would be rejected by a TPG, so the slabs really give me peace of mind.

Also, it is actually easier to learn about grading now that auction archives of slabbed coins are available online. The pictures aren't perfect but they sure are better than the black and white pictures in my old Photograde book. For example, if I am looking for a 1926S Buffalo nickel in VF, I can view literally hundreds of examples. Since some of those examples look better than others, I will then have a much better idea of what a coin that's solid for the grade should look like.

 

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Moderators, is it possible to delete/lock this thread? I reposted it as a "positive advice thread" for new collectors, and would like to restrict comments to positive suggestions for new collectors?

 

Sorry your thread relocation attempt did not work. Maybe, ask Peter to delete any posts of mine that ventured too far off topic. You won't here a peep from me over the deletions. I will consider any of my posts that remain, as complimentary to your original post.

 

Hey, rules are rules. I was just trying to make this a more productive thread for the newcomers, as they are not aware that we debate between ourselves, argue, and come out shaking hands or smiling. That is okay as we can continue with the discussion, and make points about collecting that are germane to all of us. No posts need be deleted--I did have good intentions as it was material from a variety of sources that seemed to be more important for collectors than the usual back and forth. However, whatever was decided, I am cool with it!!

 

No good deed goes unpunished.

 

Wut? I think you're spelling and grammer is grate!

 

You spent 50 years collecting coins the old way because that is all that was available. The combination of the internet and quality digital photographs has only been around for about a decade and you have not collected coins at all during most of that time by your own admission. What year did you stop collecting coins?

Nobody is saying you aren't knowledgeable about coins. But honestly, you sound just like the old time poker pros who used to laugh and tease the twenty something internet poker whiz kids. Well who is laughing now? A twenty something poker whiz has won every WSOP Main Event since 2008. And while the analogy from poker to coins isn't perfect, the inability of old guys to adapt to the new world is perfectly apt.

Going to shows is very expensive, time consuming, and downright inconvenient. Every "so called" coin shop in my area is a pawn shop or bullion shop with no knowledge or concern for coins with numismatic value. They offer ridiculous low ball prices when buying and charge higher than E-Bay retail when selling graded material. I would love to see you try to walk into one of these shops and try to explain to them the concept that most TPG graded coins are overgraded. I don't know whether they would laugh at you or just throw you out, but I do know you would be leaving the store without any coins.

Buying and selling coins on the internet using photographs is the easiest and most convenient way to buy coins in this day and age. If you buy from people with return policies it becomes much easier to evaluate the coins for yourself using your own grading abilities. You don't even need a dealer you can trust, just one on E-Bay who offers returns. Paypal will do the rest and give you all the protection that you need.

Furthermore, why is everyone in numismatics completely obsessed with not losing money when it comes time to sell their coins? This is a hobby, it is meant to be enjoyed. Most hobbies, there is no resell. My brother pays in excess of $10K/year for a golf membership because he likes to play golf. Other people collect things that are basically worthless and sell for a mere fraction of what they paid. The point is that a newbie with no grading experience could buy PCGS & NGC certified coinage and recoup 75% of his initial investment with very little effort. And most of the lost would be transactional in the form of fees or commissions.

I know you hate anecdotal evidence, but I have bought and sold hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of coins over the last decade without once ever going to a coin show. You might lump me into the 5% that did not lose money when I sold and chalk it up to luck. The truth is that I spent a lot of time reading coin books, interacting on coin forums, studying coins, photographing coins, and searching internet auctions in order to become an astute collector. It was not an accident that I was successful. Just because someone does it differently than you, it does not mean they are doing it wrong.

 

I find the tpgs handy especially when selling @geekpryde has bought a coin from me that I've bought raw had graded and beaned. And he's not the only one I'm the old fashioned type that prefers real books and magazines etc over a computer screen I know many out there rely on the tpgs to buy coins without learning the series but there's a lotta nice coins raw as there's a lotta bad fake coins raw and there's money to be made buying them

 

And as to grammar etc ain't nobody's sucks more then me. If it weren't for auto spell check they'd be illegible as I can't type or spell

 

Yeah, but you have a black cat!

Had one for 13 years. One of my favorite pets.

 

Not one but 3 had the best ever Salem for 12 years he spent 5 years traveling everywhere with me as he was diabetic and had to have insulin twice a day

 

I don't have a problem with your method at all Paul. My main response would be you acknowledge you went to the effort of educating yourself. That was my main point, education is required. You read books, studied coins, and did it without going to shows and dealers. Yes, this is possible, you are proof sir. However, others can learn by shows and dealers as well. No avenue has a monopoly on knowledge, collectors should choose what works best for them to obtain knowledge.

The reason I advocate knowledge instead of only relying on slabs is because what happens when the slabs are faked? When the only thing the collector knows is faked, and they cannot evaluate the coin, they will be worst off than before.

Regarding photos, you are a good enough photographer to know no photo is a perfect representation of a coin, some are better than others. However, you emphasize return policies, a wise precaution.

I truly do not think most of us are very far apart in our opinions, and hope we will keep the discussions productive.

 

Wow! I read this thread when it was first posted and thought it was a very friendly, well-meaning thread with lots of good information. It was not a thread that I thought would explode. However, here we are a few days later with collateral damage everywhere.

I've read the thread, but honestly do not recall who made what points. There were a few responses that stood out to me and I will briefly touch on the content of two points.

1) While I agree that no photograph can be considered universally accurate on all levels, the ability to take quality images is a real plus and many of us who strive to take quality images do not use images that make the coins look as good as they possibly can. I attempt to make the coin appear in-hand, at my desk, as it does on my monitor. Of course, different lighting (type, temperature, angle, etc...) will bring out different aspects of the image. Additionally, what my monitor shows as accurate might not be accurate on your monitor even if we are both using factory default settings. Be careful out there. I see no gain in fooling someone by an image only to have them disappointed when the coin arrives.

2) Some books are great, some not so much. I'm likely one of the few members here who has worked long-term on a numismatic book that has been published so I have a little insight into this point. The book that Dick Graham and I published on Reeded Edge half dollars is a wonderful book, in my opinion, but it might not be anyone else's cup of tea. A review of the book might be an excellent topic for a future post.

 

My only point in the whole mess is I totally agree with the idea put forth by another poster that as a new collector you buy really low grade cheap coins. If you like large cents then maybe a few $5-$10 low coin end coins. And this idea was meet with serious hostility.

How much reading a and studying does the new collector really have to do prior to spending maybe $50 on cheap coins? Books are great but you really need a coin in hand, even if only a cheap one to get the feel of collecting.

 

The only serious hostility in this thread was directed towards Doug and that's what took the thread off track. There was no need for it. Morgandude put a lot of thought into this thread. It would be cool if everyone could stay a bit more positive.

 

You should really double check which post (#15) began with off-topic attitude and sarcasm.

Also, lets not make it sound like there is a lack of the good old boys club attitude on CT, along with an often conveyed feeling of entitlement, based on seniority. All other opinions are treated as trivial and quickly get quashed or overwhelmed, with very little attempt at providing any evidence by those doing the quashing and overwhelming...

I still don't see a single book recommendation from medoraman, while his posts clearly prove that none of mine were read or understood by him, prior to him taking it upon himself to begin his lectures.

GDJMSP provided zero responses to the questions that were posed. Originally, they were all related to his response. He feels that he does not need to respond, after reminding everyone of his 50 years of experience.

ldhair, in light of all the commotion, I'll try to stay positive.

 

VS.

I agree with Lehigh96 and I will stick with my original thoughts on the matter...

 

For starters...

Trust issues and lack of imagination, which I assure you, the younger generations do not have.

Lehigh96 already explained, buy from source with a return policy and quality photos. Send back if there is an issue and move on to another internet dealer.

So, it's a waste of time, but, pictures can help you. Which one is it? You are making the start of this hobby way too difficult sounding with limitations and looking at 5 different coin pictures to prove they will look different. Crossing the street can also be harmful, if you're not careful.

Buying coins to become familiar with them works great for me, and others.

Not buying coins while going from show to show and shop to shop seems a bit pointless, not to mention promotes wasting the time of dealers and shop owners, without the intention of making a purchase. You go to enough events, you'll get a reputation as a tire kicker. I'm a guy, I don't go into stores to look and learn about the inventory. I go when I need or want something.

You won't be saving money attending and traveling "to as many coin shows as you possibly can".

If you encourage a newbie to spend money on books, provide references of the worthwhile ones. We all know the type of coin books that are floating around out there and what's really inside them. It's an expense you don't need to incur, if you have an internet connection. Similar info on the web will be more worthwhile, possibly interactive with comments and 100% free.

I do not consider upgrading a loss of money. Most times I keep all the coins, from worst to best. I can go back and use them as a reference when I encounter a discussion on the related topic. I can compare them. If I choose to get rid of one or two, I swap them with other collectors for the price I paid or spot. I like buying several examples of similar coins and upgrading along the way. This hobby would be just dull, if I only bought the MS grade in a slab, would never hold the coins, would never see the surface directly. Stages are what makes this exciting for me, not just owning slabs with MS grades.

 

Here is a good example of what I am able to see on various scans and photos, as well as in hand and under magnification. My own unaltered scans and photos of coins do help me interpret many auction photos. These particular coins are zinc plated iron. Getting used to the wear and condition, as the plating disappears and details flatten out in circulation, does take some time. I take the same approach with my 1917 T1 SLQ's. It's a pleasure to collect and experience various coins in hand, experience them first hand and have them to fall back on as a reference.

Prevents me from ending up with examples like this PCGS slab...

Genuine - XF Details (92 - Cleaned)
http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/29805132/

10 Fenigów 1917-1918 (small sample, I do own more than 4)...