What's the difference between a prototype and a pattern?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by princeofwaldo, Nov 20, 2014.

  1. princeofwaldo

    princeofwaldo Grateful To Be eX-I/T!

    I'm in Breen's "Encyclopedia of US & Colonial Coins" looking at the 1864 "small motto" 2-Cent piece, Breen lists it as a prototype. How is that different from a pattern? Or is it just Breen's own goofy nomenclature for the early more rare example of the issue?
     
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  3. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    The difference might be because although the 64 small motto used a pattern die, it was released for use in commerce. Kind of like the Cheerios dollars. The reverse was a proposed or pattern die, but the coin was released and is normally referred to as having a prototype reverse design.
     
  4. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    A prototype is an unrefined example, made while the product is still at the conceptual stage, and used to gain funding for taking the project to completion.

    A pattern is a more refined example of the product, perhaps multiple different examples, from which the final product design will be selected for development.
     
  5. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    The 1863 two cent piece is a pattern
     
  6. princeofwaldo

    princeofwaldo Grateful To Be eX-I/T!

    Thanks to all who replied, very helpful.
     
  7. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Buh bye

    When does a prototype become a pattern and vice versa? I view patterns as unadopted designs, whereas prototypes are more of a developmental stage of a design that is a work in progress to adoption.
     
  8. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    That makes sense to me in the normal English language usage of the two terms. I do not know if there is a special numismatic definition of prototype.

    Breen is full of good stuff, though he was known to kind of make up facts on the fly.
     
  9. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Buh bye

    I own different coins that are bonafide patterns, ie some of the Judd pieces, and others that were apparently developmental pieces created to perfect the design. One of my favourites is a prototype Rosa Americana penny created in 1723.

    Having known Walter Breen, I rather prefer to disregard a lot of what he said, thought and acted. He was a brilliant person in knowledge, but a miserable existence otherwise.
     
  10. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    I have heard the same from others who knew the man. I had a chance to acquire a handwritten manuscript of his. Normally I would have jumped at such a chance, but it was from his time he was in jail, and I just didn't want any part of that.
     
  11. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Buh bye

    Someone in the coin club I was a member of had ridden to Los Angeles with Walter Breen and said he probably hadn't bathed since the Eisenhower years.
     
  12. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    But when was that? I met Walter in 1985 and on several other occasions after that time and he had no hygiene issues then.
     
  13. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    :goes off to Google Walter Breen:

    :eek:

    I was a great fan of Marion Zimmer Bradley in the 1980s. To find that she was married to one of the most-cited authorities in my current hobby, and then to learn all this other... stuff...

    I think I'll go sit and rock in a corner for a while.
     
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