MARKET UPDATE BRITISH and ROMAN BRONZES do you agree? YOU are the buyers

MARKET UPDATE BRITISH and ROMAN BRONZES

Coins with great eye appeal or great rarity are in demand, price is not the governing factor. These wonderful works of art are in demand and sell with very little resistance in Europe. Average quality still sells but at auction estimates only.

 

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Dear Jeff,

every collector of "investment quality" coins should offer from time to time her or his showpieces to the coin dealer next-door and listen this person's value assesment. Reality will catch up with her or him.

Greetings,

Marc

 

Do not agree with you Marc, find what you say 100% not correct. Let us understand what is investment quality first - it is those coins you acquire as a collector because you "see them and have an emotional feeling for them". When buying a painting you do not buy it because it is just a 'work of art' for investment. The same with coins, most of my coins have never been valued, I buy high quality as this is my pleasure.
bla bla bla to you Marc. If and when the coins are sold they will fetch what the market considers is the price to pay.

MOST COINS DO NOT HAVE THE PRICE I PAID - DOES THAT SOUND LIKE AN INVESTMENT PORTFOLIO?

 

I don't really understand what you're saying in the original post. It seems like a given that a coin with great eye appeal would command a higher price. Rarity is something else...great eye appeal for a coin that is hard to come by that is in demand seems like a winning combination. I have tokens that only 1,000 were ever minted - who knows how many have survived - that are worth very little because there is little demand. That's probably not a fair comparison because those tokens are not world or ancient coins. I suppose if a couple of people that can afford to spend tons of money on these tokens start scooping them up I'll see my investment make some money instead of being my disposable income money pit.

 

SwK, I'm quite surprised at your response to @Marc Aceton's post. I think Marc's advise is very wise: it is important to know what the market thinks of ones coins and get a feel of what it is like to sell coins from time to time. Otherwise, you may end up selling your coins through the wrong avenue or your coins may have problems that were initially overlooked, or you may not understand the selling side of the market and come in blindsided.

Coins "fetching what the market considers is the price to pay" is not always the case: if you sell to a dealer, the dealer needs to put food on the table so you will absolutely not be offered what "the market" considers the price of the coin.

If in the short period period in which you planned to sell your coins, they fall out of favor or a hoard is found, the price could plummet temporarily - had you slowly tested the market by selling pieces over time, you would get a better feel of this.

If you run into financial trouble and need to sell quickly, you will likely get less for your coins in a "fire sale" and it's worth understanding that selling coins at auction may take several months from consignment to payment.

Auction house buyer's fees are also important to take into account, as is developing a relationship with auction houses and dealers so that you can get the best price paid for your coins by ensuring they are marketed properly and that as wide of a section of the collector base is aware of the sale.

You will never be able to guarantee participation by every collector worldwide at every sale, and it only takes two people who really want a coin to set a new, very high price, so the variables are numerous.

One should also take into account the consequences of selling a large number of quality coins of the same type in a single sale. Everyone has a finite budget and if your coins exist within a specialized sector of the overall coin population, you may find your collection exceeds the budgets of the collectors trying to buy it, making some coins sell for less than you would have expected.

In summary, I completely agree with Marc and think every collector should sell coins from time to time to ensure they're aware of the process.

 

Like Joe and Jeff, I claim to be a collector of what Jeff is calling "investment quality". And I can understand exactly what Jeff means with coins that you "see and have an emotional feeling for them". There are some coins in my collection I would never sell even if I could could achieve a huge profit. These items are those whom I would call to be of "investment quality".

Nevertheless, one should not be deceived about the true market value of even showpiece quality. Eventually, you will get for your coins exactly - or even less - what the prospective buyer is willing to pay in the moment and the place you are purchasing the item. And especially usual dealers will not spend considerably more for "investment quality" than for sub-par quality coins as e.g. Jeff, Joe and I do.

BTW, there is one point I - as a bronze collector - am not tired of repeating: Tampering! Not only the notorious auction houses can be blamed that they are omitting to mention in a grossly negligent manner manipulations. And when I talk about manipulations, I mean something different than ridiculous tooling.

The greed for "investment quality" made me frequently fall prey in the trap. Eventually, I had to victimize some of my better coins to compensate the losses realized on the sale of my acetone victims. I can only recommend inexperienced collectors to show restraint and to learn about the methods of the fraudsters before succumbing to the temptation to invest much money in ostensible "investment quality".

 

100%

=> "smoothing & tooling" are not your friends (lesson learned!!...ummm, learning)

 

I would rather say "painting & tooling" are not my friends. "Smoothing" is frequently condemned as wrong and let me repeat at this point something I said about it in another tread.

In the catalog descriptions, the term "smoothing" is frequently abused in order to avoid the terms "tooling" or "re-cutting".

In Germany, restorers are equating "smoothing" with cleaning since smoothing is the best way of describing the procedure of exposing an object because it is performed by ablating oxides, earth or sinter residues layer after layer. Virtually every object from ancient times is subjected to this "smoothing" (or cleaning) process.

If the former epidermis of the object, which is for bronzes equivalent to the cuprite layer, is not penetrated, this kind of "smoothing" (or cleaning) is absolutely legitimate. Despite to "tooling" or "detail re-cutting", during "smoothing", the cleaner guides his tool in parallel to the coin's surface instead of cutting perpendicularly to the surface into the metal. "Smoothing" is exposing an object whereas "tooling" or "detail re-cutting" are forging it.

Of course "smoothing" (or cleaning) should not only focus on exposing the object. It should also consider the aesthetic appeal. A professional, skillful cleaner knows when to stop ablating oxides, earth and sinter residues even before the former epidermis is reached in order to avoid a spotty appearance or surfaces becoming rough.

A video that depicts in a very good manner what I understand under "smoothing" is this one here. Unfortunately, it is demonstrated using the example of a billon coin but a very similar approach is also applied for bronzes - with the exception of the usage of acid, which is also mentioned in this video.