Upcoming episode of The Coin Show -- market grading

I'm in the early stages of compiling some research for an upcoming segment of The Coin Show where Matt is going to discuss market grading. For something new I wanted to throw this out to the community because I would like to hear some stories about how this concept has effected you as either a collector or a dealer. It isn't always an easy topic to explain to beginner collectors so I'm hoping some actual stories might help. Thank you!

 

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Here I figured your type set was a testament to it Certainly you don't just like the little green stickers for fun?

 

Aren't certain dates in certain series graded more conservatively or harshly?

 

Rather than a story, I would like to propose a topic for discussion regarding the subject of market grading. I firmly believe the reason people have so much trouble understanding market grading is because the TPGs never give you information on how they reached the final numerical grade assigned to the coin. I have long been a proponent of the TPGs assigning MS grades for each of the 4 elements of grading and including that information on the label. It would not change the overall grade which would still be listed in its normal place, just there would be additional information listed on the label (smaller & on the back maybe).

For example, lets look at a coin that was discussed in a recent thread that was obviously market graded for it's toning/eye appeal.



Most people think this coin has MS64 or MS65 surfaces, but the coin was graded MS66+ because of the premium gem qualities of the other elements of grading. I would like to see this information included on the label. Perhaps it would look like this:

SP: MS64+
ST: MS66
LU: MS67
EA: MS68

Please keep in mind that this is simply a hypothetical exercise. I have not actually seen this coin in hand and don't actually know if the Luster is MS67 quality or the eye appeal is MS68 quality. But I certainly would like to know why the TPG decided to grade a coin with MS64+ surfaces as an MS66+.

 

What does the star on the slab mean?

 

thanks for the link.

 

You got it! IMO, the graders already make their evaluations of the individual elements of grading, all I am asking is that they share them with their customers.

 

I think they could handle luster, strike, and eye appeal with 1 number. Maybe for surface preservation they could do 2 numbers: eg. MS65/64

 

I believe "market grading" appears to be the privilege of some TPG and established prominent "dealers". The certifying individuals often claim self-engendered titles, disregarding published explicit standards, when applying seemingly subjective "over-grades".

Although I've experienced and own many examples of certified "market graded" coins, I believe two "top tier" TPG certified examples in my collection are representative of coins seemingly having grading disparity.

One coin is a 1916-D EF40 graded Mercury dime, which doesn't have one complete vertical line or diagonal band on the "Reverse". The other coin is a 1924-D MS67 graded Standing Liberty quarter, which doesn't have one complete character in the date. The date generally only distinguishable with an eye loupe.

I've received "low ball" offers on these coins from "dealers" who profess grading expertise beyond that of the "elite". Several have proclaimed VG-F technical grades for the two coins, and offered appropriate amounts before being politely dismissed.

I personally have decided that there are few who can claim expertise in grading, myself excluded as an "expert", but many fools try. Several are paid great amounts for their lack of knowledge "opinions".

JMHO

 

I was told by a top tier grader in person that "the reverse can never help a coin's grade, but it can hurt it." These were the exact words out of his mouth

 

I believe my contention is supported by such a seemingly foolish oxymoronic statement. One professing/allowed "expertise in grading" should have a better understanding.

I suggest there are few trades/professions/industries which allow valuable decisions to be implemented without supporting evidence.

When I prepare a legal document for patent/copyright application, or an "opinion" upon which physical or monetary assets may be effected, axioms/truths for a basis, generally must be stated.

I lack comprehension of how little oversight/standards are applied/allowed by this "industry".

JMHO

 

I wouldn't characterize that statement as double talk, rather, it is blatantly false. The TPGs will absolutely bump the grade of a coin based on the superlative qualities of one side of the coin no matter which side it is. Want proof? Okay, there is no way the obverse surfaces of this Morgan Dollar are MS64. The obverse is MS63 (at best) and the reverse is MS65, so they net graded the coin to MS64*.



Doug, you are also correct that coins used to be graded limited by their worst side, EVEN BY THE TPGs. Furthermore, you are correct that the TPGs changed their policy and started NET grading coins. As LostDutchman alluded to in another thread, (Etiquette: questioning and/or "averaging" grades: page6), this is an example of the TPGs giving the market what it wants. While you may disagree, collectors were tired of seeing coins with and MS63 reverse and MS65 obverse being graded MS63. They would rather see the coin net graded to MS64. This does not mean that they changed the standards for what qualifies as an MS63 or an MS64, but it would result in hundreds of thousands of coins getting a higher grade. It is not a deliberate loosening of grading standards that caused grades to increase, it is these additions to their market grading system combined with the natural effect of gradeflation that has yielded higher grades of the last few decades.