Etiquette: questioning and/or "averaging" grades?

Regardless of how many times the experienced members here tell me, I am continually shocked at the number of TPG-graded coins that are over-graded. (this is a common occurrence at my LCS).

Now for the questions.

1) Is it bad etiquette to question coin grades from TPGs or the dealer themselves?

If done politely, reasonably, and with a certain level of knowledge evident in the buyer, I would think that it is just good common sense. The conversation could go something like this:

<Buyer> Hello! May I ask you a question about this coin?
<Seller> Sure!
<Buyer> It is graded as a VF25, but according to this book on ANA Grading Standards, it does not meet the criteria (and give the reasons). Would you agree? Why or why not?

* Note: I am NOT trying to lowball them. I honestly feel that the coin is over-graded. Perhaps there is a rarity I don't know about, etc.

2) They may say that certain features are higher than the given grade, therefore the positives cancel out the negatives. This seems reasonable. Is this true?

3) (Similar to the last question, but slightly different.) Let's say a coin has a textbook VF-20 obverse and a textbook F-12 reverse. I've been told by some experienced collectors (whom I trust) that the lower of the two grades is the grade that the coin should receive. Yet I've read elsewhere that they should be "averaged" together. Is there a a single correct answer to this or is it open to interpretation?

Thank you for reading my long, and at times ranting, post. ;-)

I look forward to hearing your opinions and rationales.

 

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Thanks.

So if I feel it is overgraded, I just pass on the coin? They will not come down in price because someone, somewhere will pay for the slab and not the coin?

Even if it is a grade that they themselves put on a 2x2?

 

I think it is best to just politely pass on the coin if you don't agree with the grade or if you don't find the coin eye-appealing. Why settle? There are plenty of coins out there. Half of the fun is the hunt.

 

If you don't want the coin at the price asked either don't buy it or make an offer.

 

How dare you ask such heretical questions. These issues were solved when independent, disinterested, third party graders rolled up their sleeves and "got to the bottom of this." So, how are they doing?

BTW, in the olden days coins were split graded ie EF/AU. The buyer could decide if the worse side was the grade, the obverse was the grade or whatever made the buyer happy aka as a free market that actually is free. Now it's whatever makes a finalizer happy.

That's what we got for allowing others to do our thinking and make the rules-we got what we deserve.

 

I don't bother with questions from dealers on ungraded coins, in the few circumstances that I do buy raw coins. If they are graded, I also don't bother asking the dealer, as I can look at the coin, and see if I agree with the grade. It is all up to the purchaser to do his/her due diligence. Most dealers are vendors of merchandise, and not one's personal expert. In cases where I know the dealer very well, I would engage in conversation about a coin, but not to question the grade---that is MY responsibility as a buyer to ascertain.

 

You can still form your own opinion that way, regardless of what the slab states.

 

Only if your not too busy drinking Kool-Aid. :shock:

 

Nonsense. TPGs are NOT "kool Aid." You don't like them--buy raw coins, and enjoy some problem/cleaned coins in the process that you can't detect.

 

Enjoy your counterfeit coins in counterfeit slabs that you can't detect.

 

If you are selling coins is it bad etiquette for a dealer to then question your coins grades?

 

I don't think it is bad etiquette, if you're going to be charged a serious premium for a figment of imagination grade on a given coin. If you are staring at an MS 65/66, the price reflects an MS 68 and there are no other alternatives on display, how does it make any sense not to inquire? Isn't that part of building one of those honest, long-lasting, fruitful relationships the dealer supporters here are trying to peddle as a must have?

There is no single correct answer if grading is subjective. Last I checked, it was. I guess some of us here can't even keep our facts straight when it comes to different people and different flavors of ice cream. I wish all junk food analogies were applied consistently on the forum, not selectively. Grades vary because people's perception and experience with certain coins varies. It is possible for a grade not to have a single correct answer. Not all coins are going to be straight forward and easy to decipher in their appearance. We just had a good explanation of how even an expert may not apply himself/herself and miss some surface issue at first glance. Looks like he can also be asked and approached...

Bean Wars - CAC

If you factor in the old approach of grading both sides, for example EF/AU, the opinions on that coin may vary through 40, 45, 50, 53, 55, 58. We've seen enough subjective grading mistakes, that discussing the grade should not be considered bad etiquette. Bad etiquette is peddling overgraded coins. When in doubt, offer to buy after it comes back from TPG or CAC.

I do believe you would be wasting a bit of your time with these questions to dealers and TPG's. See point number three in this thread, sums up the reality of the situation pretty well...

Some observations from the coin show

 

Bad etiquette or bad etiquette from the point of the person being asked?

 

This is an example of overthinking a problem. You'll know soon enough if you've offended anyone!

 

easy:

ditto

 

Honest? Long-lasting? Fruitful? All this from someone who overgrades by 2-3 points?

Would you want to try to develop this type of relationship with a basement slabber who consistently overgrades?

Chris