Some observations from the coin show

I went to a local coin show this morning and here are some observations.

1. It seems dealers have not checked the spot price of silver or gold lately.

2. It seems about 60% of the dealers there are just fishing for suckers. (Very high prices on common stuff.)
3. It is funny that most dealers have slabbed coins in the MS62-MS64 range and all their raw coins are self graded at MS65 and MS66.
4. How many problem 19th Century type coins are raw, but dealers are asking full retail.
5. Dealers think that just because a coin has a CAC, its worth nearly double book.
6. 97% of the coin there, were there 6 months ago.
7. I asked a dealer for the price of a common German Mark, and after 2 minutes of him fumbling around looking through a Krause catatlog to quote me, I turned my back on him and walked away.
8. The guy selling numismatic books had nobody at his table
9. I did manage to find 4 dealers that had realistic prices and were willing to work with me.
10. I overheard a lot of dealers talking trash about each other. Even one guy calling the other a thief.
11. I also noticed months ago, that a dealer had some slabbed problem coins, that were now cracked out and in his display raw.
12. Half of these guys were also at the ANA last month

 

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What coin show was this?

 

Thanks, you're the best.

 

An opportunity missed by many. Sad........

 

Santa Clara, I'd guess?

Unless there was another big one this weekend...

 

There was the Gettysburg show.

 

Dear fellow is 'mid-America' so I doubt that..........

 

no, it was a small local show

 

It seems that a lot of dealers are 'forgetting' to update precious metals prices lately. One of the dealers in my area is now asking spot +8 for ASEs and spot +4 for generic rounds/bars. Yikes!!!

 

Many dealers bought when silver/gold were high and are now stuck with it. Why would you sell for a loss just because the market dropped? These guys are not high volume bullion dealers.

 

Those who bought futures must be very happy.

 

I went today to the Santa Clara show today and was somewhat disappointed. I realized this was the last day of a three day show but this place was empty. Dealers and public. I also had to wait while two dealers were verbally bashing another dealer. It appears to me that there is not much motivation to sell. Among other coins I was viewing was an 1876-s Trade Dollar in AU 50. Grey sheet on the coin was $300 to $1000 at MS 60. I could not pull the trigger at $850.

 

Is that NGC?

Dealer wholesale prices and FMV on that both list at 250 (NGC).

Collector price at FMV is 300.

I know trade dollars are popular so maybe they thought they could sell it for that, but IMO it would have been a rip-off. You can do better on eBay.

Then again, I've noticed I get better prices if I break out the loupe and actually talk to the dealer. Well, it's either that or they get annoyed because they are looking for ignorant customers. I've seen all kinds of shady things at shows. People telling me coins were cleaned when they were not (I'm pretty confident I can tell that esp. in UNC) and then on top of the "ask" prices which were significantly lower than they should be they wanted a 30% wholesale discount. Yeah, right...

Then again, I know some very honest dealers who would never do that.

I really think something needs to be done about the ask/bid spread.

eBay helps (I found a bunch of AU50 Trade Dollars but nothing in that date/mint).

I was about to buy a trade proof off there a few months ago but something else came up.

 

If ignorance in this hobby were to disappear entirely then bad dealers would go out of business or forced to be more honest. Unfortunately this will probably never happen. With regards to the spread there was a heated debate about this a few weeks ago were doug(gdjmsp) was part of. Bottom line is that it is not the customers business to know how much a dealer paid for a coin. If you don't like a quote a dealer gives you then walk away. always be willing to walk away.

 

It takes collectors a bit to adjust down their buying prices as well. Which gives the dealers little incentive to lower their prices. One of the local coin store bid boards routinely has people bidding higher on silver bullion than they could just buy from the shop owners case for less. Yesterday I saw people bidding mid $20s for silver eagles.

 

You can usually tell what they paid for the coin if it was at auction. Otherwise there are online mobile dealer/collector price guides that are frequently updated ;3

Ancients are more dificult but if you've been collecting them long enough you have a good idea uness it's a weird / rare variety. There are also the pieces like the trites from Lydia that are very common, just so collectable they often go for 2x or 3x the estimate. I'm just glad CNG finally took this into account. Personally, I'd want the more obscure stuff and THEN go for a nice common. Trites will always be around.

BUT = asking a grand for a 330 dollar coin (I can't tell if it just went up or if I was looking at the wrong one, but they are close) ... That's a rip-off.

Sentiment like that will turn people off to the hobby. Not everyone is educated.

 

Wow that sounds like every coin show I've ever been to in oregon, Washington and Nevada. I believe this is why I started a thread titled
"Please show me your good deals at coin shows" because I just don't think that great deals are waiting at these shows. And interestingly most of the "good deals" people showed were not in fact "good deals" but dealer error.
This is why all but two coins in my collection were bought everywhere except a coin show.

 

It took me more time to post the pictures then find these on ebay. And that is checking only ebay not the open net. I can pick from four tpg certified coins in higher grade for less money. And please don't tell me about how appealing it must have looked. Just like the au SQL example we saw from a while back that I found 4 ms 63 for less then the au. And they were nice.

And this just brings me right back to the fact that yesterday people could get away with this market behavior because the only coins available were either at a show or lcs. But today I can look over the inventory of every online dealer in less time then it takes to drive to the coin show and get a nicer, higher grade certified coin for less money. Long live the Information Age.

 

I remember that post it was a great read. You should link it in your signature.