Mandatory 6 month return if you accecpt pay pal

I was ATS and this was being discussed,

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full.


Policy Updates
This page informs users in advance of important changes to the PayPal service, its User Agreement, or other policies. This page displays policy updates with future effective dates. Go to “Past Policy Updates” for previous policy updates.



Amendments to the PayPal User Agreement
Effective Date: November 18, 2014

We encourage you to carefully review this Policy Update to familiarize yourself with all of the changes that are being made to the PayPal User Agreement. These updates will be posted at least 30 days prior to their effective date. These changes will not apply retroactively and will become effective November 18, 2014. If you use PayPal after the date these changes become effective, we will take that usage as your consent to the changed terms.

 

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Spoiler: PayPal Dispute policy

1. Dispute Filing Window
   We’re increasing the time for buyers to file a merchandise dispute (Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described) from 45 days to 180 days. All references in the User Agreement to “Opening a Dispute within 45 days” have been updated to reflect “Opening a Dispute within 180 days.” The Sections these changes appear include the Introduction, 3.15, 13.2 and 13.5.

That is absurd 45 days is more than enough time. 180 days? that's half a year oh the problems this will cause for sellers.

 

Spoiler: PayPal claims policy

Further, if you lose a SNAD Claim because we, in our sole discretion, reasonably believe the item you sold is counterfeit, you will be required to provide a full refund to the buyer and you will not receive the item back (it will be destroyed). PayPal Seller protection will not cover your liability.

At least they are going to start doing something about counterfeit coins on eBay. I wonder how PayPal destroys these items?

 

Still won't help. A lot of it is still on the buyers to KNOW they have a counterfeit. Unfortunately many will never know this for years until the go to sell.

 

They just advise the buyer to destroy it. At least that is what they have been doing.

 

So that means if I sold a Double Eagle for say $2200 and the buyer gets it he can say it is counterfeit even though it isn't and I lose the money and the buyer keeps the coin? I was just robbed of my coin basically. How is that fair?

 

ATS?

 

Yes

 

Across The Street.
CU to be exact

 

You kids and your funky lingo

 

180 days is excessive.

 

Yeah, that's kind of the objection I've had to eBay's Buyer Protection policy. Makes for a great place to buy, but who'd want to sell?

The flip side, apparently, is that they do keep track of what buyers are doing, and pull the plug on abusive buyers. It's just too bad, though, if you're the first or second of five people that the buyer abuses.

I came across a discussion somewhere where an eBay buyer was complaining that he got penalized for filing two Buyer Protection claims. He posted a message from eBay stating that they'd found that he was abusing the process, and that he was no longer eligible to file Buyer Protection claims, EVER, with no appeal available. Now, clearly, we're only hearing one side of the story -- I've filed a lot more claims than that, and the most I ever got was a follow-up verification call after a couple of four-figure claims in a short period, so this guy must have done more than he described. But it's interesting to know that that kind of penalty exists.

Bottom line, since there are so many people still selling on eBay, this kind of abuse must not be that common. But the possibility of it has been enough to keep me on the sidelines for many years.

 

I wish there was an alternative to ebay.

 

That means they will have to keep the listings around for 180 days too. Right now if you go to feedback, details on any items over 90 days old are no longer available. If they're going to require SNAD claims up to 180 days, then it would certainly seem that they need to keep the original listings around for that long too.

 

EbPoo will eventually kill itself off with all the ridiculous demands they make of sellers. Even as a buyer I cannot use it - they keep changing default settings and made searches difficult so I haven't bought anything in quite awhile.

 

eBay was a much more fun and personable place to buy coins when I first started using the site in 1999. You could freely converse with sellers (and other bidders) and send off payment in the mail. eBay has grown so large and complicated over the years it makes me sick. Now a days buying and selling is just an automated process. This new policy will be even more of a nightmare for sellers than the old one.

I haven't bought coins on eBay in years. In fact, I hardly use eBay at all anymore except for when I occasionally can't find an item somewhere else.

 

I use it to find stuff for my model railroading hobby - then I look at the seller's website and find it cheaper there - no paypoo, no eBay fees - well you can sell cheaper.

 

Okay, here's something confusing:

Of course, counterfeit coins are prohibited by eBay's policy. So, are they covered under PayPal Semi-Eternal Buyer Protection, or not?

My guess is that, if you list them as counterfeits or copies, you're on the hook because of eBay's policies (as described, but prohibited); if you list them as legitimate coins, you're on the hook because of both eBay's and PayPal's policies (not as described, counterfeit).

The problem, of course, is that someone can claim they received a counterfeit coin, and neither eBay nor PayPal have high standards of proof. At present, this doesn't seem to be a big issue, but as it becomes more widely known, I would expect more scammers to take advantage of it.

I'm worried that the end-game here will involve eBay restricting Buyer Protection for items like coins, and/or imposing an expensive arbitration process that involves sending the coin to eBay, which will decide "real or fake" and bill the buyer or seller appropriately, with no accountability or recourse.

 

It's not fair, but it also has nothing to do with fairness.

In the not so distant past a member of this board bought a raw Trade from a gentleman on ebay. He didn't want to spend the money to have certified and instead relied on comments/opinions expressed here in deciding if he believed the coin genuine or not. Well, to make a long story short, instead of an honest and impartial discussion, conjecture and paranoia won the day, and because of ebay's "counterfeit" policy, this buyer considered keeping this most likely genuine coin instead of simply returning it to the rightful owner. While the aforementioned gentleman certainly was not trying to rip the seller off, had he kept the coin, this situation would have been just as you described above; the point with this is no matter how good intentioned a policy may be, it opens the door to abuse, intentional or not.