Featured Recycled Article No. 1: Coin Show Etiquette

I was at a coin show in Livermore, CA yesterday and at a dealers table looking at some coins I heard a fellow club member practically yelling at the man standing between us. After a few moments when I understood why my friend was so upset I had to back him up. The man between us had told my friend who was looking at some Barber halves the dealer next to the one I was visiting had in his case told him ANOTHER dealer across the room had better coins and he should go take a look at them. My friend came unglued. He told the man that it was rude, inappropriate and downright disrespectful to the dealer in front of them for him to even suggest such a thing while he was looking at this dealers' coins. Why would he want to send a potential customer of this dealer to someone else and deny him a possible sale. The guy was clueless, he thought he had done nothing wrong by suggesting my friend go and look at another dealers coins while my friend was trying to do business with the dealer they were in front of.

I have been to many major coin shows and local coin club held shows and the two most important things I have found as a shopper is be polite and patient. Dealers do take notice of that and if I decide to purchase a coin or coins from them more often than not I do not have to ask if they can give me a break on the price. When I hand them the coin/coins I want to buy they always give a discount. Never push your way in to see a dealers wares. You do nothing but irritate the persons you shove out of the way and the dealer sees a very rude individual who they may think is going to be just as rude with them. Do not stand in front of a dealers table and block others from gaining access to their display cases.

I do not buy coins through eBay, too impersonal. I want to interact with the person I am buying coin(s) from. I do business with several dealers online through their web sites or in person at coin shows. I will actually call them to buy a coin listed on their web site. It gives me a chance to chat with them and they like to be able to get to know a little about me and what I collect. Building a personal relationship with them is beneficial for both of us.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

To each his/her own. Some here enjoy and value their relationships with dealers. I have nothing disparaging to say about this idea.

What I do have to say is a relationship with a dealer is not necessary in today's world. I have posted many of my coins here. All but two were purchased on line.I feel no need to collect any specific coin or series and thus I am not bound to "need" any particular coin and thus need no specific dealer. To get my money, every collector selling and every dealer selling on line must compete with everyone and their mother who is online for my money.

By no means am I claiming to be an expert. I have made some mistakes. But if i, a self admitted non expert has bought coins that a dealer immediately offers 98-100% of the purchase price on some to many of my coins the it proves two things.

1. The deals are out there on line if you have the time and motivation you can buy really nice coins for great prices. The fact that I was able to proves not that I am talented but that it is there for anyone to get.

2. While it can be useful to some, any relationship with a dealer is now optional, not manditory. I feel that my personal collection proves this. Many people on this site like my coins. All but two were obtained online. Many for good prices. The only ones I paid a significant mark up were some of my coinfacts coins. I pay a stupid premium for the right to see my coin on the coinfacts website. I have definately made my share of mistakes in coins but they grow fewer as my buying advances.

I have nothing against coin dealers. They provide a necessary function. Or at least they used to. But look at it like this. Before people would meet in a bar.
Now one in about three romantic relationships is arranged totally online. Bars still sell beer and people still meet there. But there are fewer people there because options are available today that didn't exist yesterday. Everything is moving on line. I buy tons of stuff from Amazon because their prices are great and with prime I get free two day shipping. Why in the world would the coin market be sheltered from the Information Age when almost every other aspect of our lives has been changed by connectivity?

Coin shows are great and coin dealers for the most part great. I still don't understand why this category of people in sales has one of the highest percentage of rude salesmen but that is nether here nor there. But while yesterday 100% of all transactions went through a coin dealer, this percentage slips daily as more and more old school collectors exit (polite term for dying) the field and guys like me and the geek and more importantly our money takes their place.

Proper coin show behavior is nice but the entire need for a coin show lessens daily.

Like I posted before a guy tried to get $310 from me for a pcgs thick Norse white 63. While standing in front of his table but not being obvious or rude about it I bought the exact same coin for $210 on ebay and even used ebucks to do it. Just one but a perfect example of the point I am making.

In today's world, to get my money and others on this forum who share my ways, you have to have a better price then literally everyone else selling a coin on line. And as tomorrow becomes yesterday this will only become the rule as today's rule becomes tomorrow's exception.

 

Agree 100%, just because the dealer has a coin in his inventory with which he has some sort of emotional attachment, doesn't mean I should be expected to pay the sticker price without asking what the best deal he can swing is. As for Gray-Sheet, it's becoming almost irrelevant anyway, with Coin Facts and eBay closed auction listings providing a much more accurate picture of the market for most coins. Most dealers would do well take Gray-Sheet bids now days, as often times the price is wildly overly optimistic.

 

When I read about the coins that I could never afford, the coins that make me drool, they are sold in one and only one place. Major auctions. And guess what? they usually take internet bids. Lol.

I believe much of what you tell us is true. But I also believe some of what you tell us is changing faster then you want to believe or accept. I know for example how you state buy the coin not the plastic and that it is the coin not the holder with value. I was reading about a dime that reholdered and then sold at auction for three times prior auction sale. Same dime different plastic. While you don't agree, I believe plastic has more of an impact on value then you want to accept.

I value much of what you say. Especially on technical aspects like grading or toning. But on this issue we can agree to disagree.

 

Doesn't this demonstrate the "good old boy's club" attitude and mentality that can translates into ignored customers at shows?

One possible example...

I make my sales in private or schmoozing with other dealers, therefore, I don't need the nobody annoying customers at coin shows. This is why I turn my back on them, ignore them, talk and deal mostly with other dealers, etc. while peons walk by and ogle my untouchable display case content.

 

As someone who used to make his living in a field that was about 95% killed off by the digitization and Internet twin revolutions, I feel that too many coin dealers are whistling past the graveyard. Ask not for whom the obsolescence bell tolls, it tolls for thee.

The gradual decline in major show attendance figures, unaided by US Mint flipathons, stands as testimony to a trend we may not like, but technology and what Vic said, what I call demographic turnover, are changing this market. We may or may not like it, but it seems to me indisputable.

My old profession didn't die one day, it took place almost imperceptibly over many years. But one day we realized we couldn't figure how we were going to meet payroll.

The digital alternative was noticeably inferior, but we found that most people didn't care, it was cheaper.

 

I'm not glum, just shedding light on the mentality of some. If you didn't notice, the above reference to such an approach seemed to be one of pride and admiration for the modus operandi. Exemplary coins for exemplary people, until they need the assistance of an exemplary and reputable auction house, with public access internet bids.

How you phrased this, you know how to be sweet, sensitive and gentle. Admirable. I don't have it in me. Thumbs up!

 

So you used to make watches?

 

I'm gonna guess, a shoe repair store. NO, WAIT! Switchboard operator!

 

I never said I don't buy from dealers. I said a relationship is not necessary. I buy from whomever offers coins I love at acceptable prices. But who that person is means nothing to me. Our relationship is irrelevant What margin they need to stay in business is also irrelevant. Sounds tough? It is the new coin business reality. Watch what happens in the market. As increasing on line competition squeezes profit margins on both the buy and sell you will probably see something like 9/10 coin dealers go out of business over the next twenty years. Think it can't happen? Tell Netscape about it. Tell the kodiac people all about how their services will be needed forever. How about those buggy whip manufactures? Been to a Hollywood or blockbuster video store lately? Bought a stand alone gps anytime recently? How is that cassette player working out for you? Made any mixed tapes lately?

As technology changes the fabric of our society changes. See many gas station attendants lately? Jobs once necessary become obsolete as time passes. It can happen to any job. No one is immune, not even me. Any job is at risk as time passes. Watch what happens to taxi drivers when the google cars go from trial to everyday use.

Coin dealers function is to bridge the gap from seller to buyer. How willing are you going to be to pay someone to do this job when you already know all the buyers yourself via the internet. Are you going to pay someone to do something you can easily do yourself? Maybe "you" will, but there will be few and far between. Like I said the coin dealer is a career with a bleak future. I didn't create this situation I just am able to perceive it. Hate the message not the messenger.

 

As GDJMSP said, the vast majority of exemplary coins will be found in individual coin dealers' online or B&M inventories not on eBay. eBay is fast becoming a haven for coin sellers who cannot be trusted by their recent policy changes and lack of enforcement of the many sellers who utilize their site to rip off buyers.

Many casual collectors need a source to find that common date Lincoln cent, Jefferson nickel, Franklin half, etc. in either circulated or BU and you do not see those individual coins offered online as there is too much work and expense involved to list them. Where do you find those coins? A local coin shop or coin show that's where. The internet will kill off some of the local coin shows and close the shops which are run by unethical dealers but it will not completely eradicate the local coin shop which is run with integrity and fair prices. Local coin shows will consolidate in time with dealers who you would want to do business with.

 

Everything you said is true today. Tomorrow is a much different story.

 

That creme de la creme attitude puts a lot of power in the hands of the dealer. What if he has two or three customers interested in that rare coin. Does he play them off of each other, pretending a third party is taking offers on the coin, or does he just settle on one lower price? Wouldn't an auction setting and a highest public bid scenario benefit the dealer most? Live and learn, eh? A first come, first served approach seems a bit cold and indifferent, if more than one party is in a warm and fuzzy relationship with their dealer. You guys enjoy your charades, I'll stick to the basics.

 

Red Book? I use Gray Sheets as a price guide and so do all the dealers I know.