Another Bay Bridge Specimen, is it original or cleaned?

I need to post more photos of their capsules. Many here would gain new respect for their talent. Remember SEGS is not SGS. SGS is probably the cause of their tarnished reputation (pun not intended).

 

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I am sure that many here are already quite familiar with SEGS, and no matter how you wish to portray them as victims of a similar name, their reputation is not due to confusion, but was hard earned.

For the sake of fairness, I very much like their holder and don't really mind SEGS as long as it is understood that for all sense and purposes, their coins should be viewed as raw.

 

You should see some of the winners I have slabbed in SEGS holders. I bought a 1926 Sesquicentennial Half in MS-65 recently in a SEGS holder and it looks every bit the grade and perhaps choice for the grade!

 

Perhaps it is, and perhaps not; I've (tediously) pulled a couple of "winners" out of SEGS holders, so I've no doubt that there is at least some halfway decent material out there, but everything can be choice for the grade when one's intent is to sell to an unknown party, who may or may not understand what they're buying, for the highest price possible; in this respect, SEGS is choice.

I suppose the bigger question here is..... if it's unc, does it actually have any "luster left at all"?

 

Segs is a joke, and a poor one at that. So I'll make you an offer. I'll put my money where my mouth is. I'll trade you as many great segs coins as you want for their poorly graded pcgs and ngc counterparts. Sight unseen. Let me know when you want to put your money where your mouth is.

 

Well exactly and you know how the old saying goes "you buy the coin, not the slab". I'm finding this more and more obvious as I purchase online. Of course too if the pictures are questionable ask for better ones or don't bid it too high.

Sadly I don't go to coin shows. I haven't been to any since childhood so am missing a large element of the industry and what to obverse in seeing many better coins of more various types. Closest thing to attending a coin show for me in recent years is visiting Heritage Galleries office in NYC, going to flea markets and the local coin shop by me that went out of business due to the death of the owner. Imagine now, people are probably thinking here, he never attends a coin show, how peculiar, sad, what a pathetic chap.

 

Wow, that is quite a statement you just made. Obviously you think I'm being honest and that I appreciate your confidence in what I say. So what coins or exonumia are you looking to trade?

Frankly about all of you here surely think I have apostate views regarding my thoughts on understanding of coins, coin grading and the coin grading service hierarchy. Believe it or not too I actually have more confidence that my SEGS coins are better graded than most of my PCGS or NGC ones. That SEGS cannot grade coins as accurately as PCGS or NGC is a long standing rumor in my opinion, as it is not based on anything too substantial. Now perhaps with older SEGS slabs there is a real argument to be made that their grading standards then were too liberal but the new stuff is quite the opposite I've found. The new SEGS is grading more conservatively than both PCGS and NGC (on average). The only way one can know this or be convinced beyond what I report is to try sending them to slab some cheaper coins and see how they turn out. If you find the grade is accurate or perhaps graded a bit too conservatively you will certainly get my point. Send them a coin you like, however make it a more inexpensive one (so the money factor won't discourage the submission) you're not thinking to sell. I would be curious to learn of your opinion(s) in your findings with their grading. If you don't try it you will never know for certain.

 

I've always wondered how do you properly dip or clean a coin (only if it's an obvious situation to do of course)?

Curious, might this be your Bay Bridge coin you photographed?

I have an AU-58 Bay Bridge (SEGS) with 100% natural dark grey toning. This was the coin before it slabbed and looks much better in person. Here it is, crappy photos, sorry:


I bought the coin raw on Ebay luckily it graded with a normal outcome.

I went to my bank vault yesterday and looked at the SEGS Bay Bridge coins I've submitted to them, all were graded correctly except for one. I have this VF-20 specimen that looks very harshly cleaned and overgraded. Between where it says "IN GOD WE TRUST" and "HALF DOLLAR" it's obvious of the fact it was cleaned. This is my one and only extremely lowball Bay Bridge example. It should grade VG-10 Details IMHO. I've posted this one already on CoinTalk. Here it is before graded:


The NGC Bay Bridge AU-58 you picture is a decent coin however since it was dipped it does exhibit dull grey flat luster. My SEGS AU-58 pictured has less luster however it is brilliant luster.

Speaking of the bears, I also have a couple of AU-58 California Jubilee coins that look natural as well (NGC & older PCI), not toned but silvery white.

As for the coin I posted earlier that I recently submitted to SEGS, you do have a point based on that it is not AU, however in person I believe the coin exhibits stronger details than the photos I provided suggest. That is why I am somewhat confident the coin will probably grade AU-53 or somewhere in that neighborhood. It could grade XF (I will keep everyone posted on the result) but I would say 3/4 that AU will be the outcome but then again I'm not the expert.

 

For those of you following this post, SEGS returned this coin to me in a solid AU-50 holder, so I was right about it being AU but it didn't come back a high grade AU.

 

I would qualify that statement by saying "I was right about it being segs au."

 

Indeed. Looking at the coin more closely though, the bear does appear to show evidence of cleaning given the hairlines however it seems nowadays all the grading services to some extent have a tolerance for patterned hairlines if done tastefully (and it will not details grade then often enough). The bridge side of the coin shows no sign of cleaning (and looks great that way with the natural antique toning). Mind you three of my Bay Bridge submissions to SEGS did details grade in the past. It likely depends who the grader is plus the alertness of the individual at the time of day. If a grader has already looked over 900 coins in a day's work, I would suppose the chances to overlook problems increases due to exhaustion and having a coin grade solidly (rather than getting details graded) increases. Probably the middle of the day the graders are sharpest. Early on tired from just waking up and late tired from eye strain.