PCGS made a big mistake?

I'm being serious here: Who cares? I mean, the "ANA Label" doesn't mean anything different about the quality or strike of the "coin" -- so I fail to see why this is relevant to collectors. It might be relevant to US Mint product dreck-peddlers and flippers...but not to collectors.

 

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Possibly off topic, but if I were to collect slabbed coins, I would probably be willing to pay less for coins graded at a show, because I suspect their QC standards might be lower at shows than at their main facility.

Of course they have their guarantee and all, but as it was mentioned in an old thread that was recently resurrected, their guarantee is for wholesale value, not retail, and you have to foot the expense of sending the coin in to them to have it evaluated.

What I find ironic about this process is that the TPG's market the importance of having coins graded by a third party, but when it comes to their guarantee, they are essentially their own second opinion. Conflict of interest? It would be in virtually any other industry.

 

`My understanding (at the ANA) was that folks were shipping them (the JFK's) in from all over and submitting them to PCGS.

Later as they realized that they (PCGS) required a mint receipt to have it submitted as the ANA label.

 

Blaubart:

Agreed, it is a conflict.

How about if you feel that they made a grading mistake you have to pay them to reevaluate it?

The one exception?
ANACS.

I was at last year's ANA and showed them a G-06 1912 S V-nickel, and asked them: Hey, how many letters do ya' need to get a VG?

JT looked at the coin, turned to Paul and said: 'write it up'.

I asked how much, and Paul said: we made a mistake, why should you pay for our mistake?"

Now, to me, that is good business!

 

LOL! You sarcasm was spot on! LOL!

 

These special labels have no added value to collectors. I feel they were created for the TV shysters, and mega dealers as a way for them to fool people into paying more.

 

To me, this is typical of the TPGs. It's just like FBL on Franklins and FS on Jeffersons. By that, I mean each TPG has it's own definition as to what qualifies for that label. If you don't do your homework and know what the TPG's parameters are...then you might not purchase what you think you are.

 

I agree...

 

I would say it's quite a bit different from FBL and FS designations. FBL and FS aren't labels they are attributes of the actual coin -- not the circumstances of it's slabbing (alla the "ANA Show" or "First Releases" or any other worthless/meaningless label designator). Your analogy is comparing apples and oranges IMO.

 

But they DO have value...otherwise there would be no premium paid for them. They might not have any value for you or me, but to others they do have value. Collectors like to collect, plain and simple. Give something unique and limited to a collector and it will be collected. It allows the collector to say, "Look what I have and you don't". I have no problem with that. That is why now-a-days, you see some many different type of labels. The TPG's know this so they create label collectibility and thus create value.

This is the same argument as one saying that they collect cents. I hate cents. I find no value in cents. I don't know why anyone would waste their time or money on them. I collect silver dollars, now thats were the value is.....you may disagree....same with the labels. As collectors, we do we feel the need to so objectively point out the stupidity of what others collect. Is that the cat calling the kettle black?

 

it is not the same argument. I go by the fact that once all the hoopla of a release diminishes, the coins of the same grade sell for pretty much the same price. I look at 2008 silver eagles for example. ngc ms70's sell for the same price whether they are early release or brown label. So that is why label have no value. Your cent argument is apples to oranges. Good day.

 

Yes they do. Today. When tomorrow happens the labels will lose their shine and trade with the tiniest fraction of value over the normal labels. The hof and Kennedys have dropped from 3000-4000 to less then around half their starting value. You don't have to do anything except wait and you will be able to get the Ana label for that tiniest fraction I was speaking about.

 

It is the same argument.... when you say when all the hoopla diminishes they all sell for the same price that is just another way of saying, everyone who wanted a label got their label and now there is no demand. You and I may buy a MS70 first release and brown label for the same price, but there are collectors who will pay more and once that demand dies, then the prices even out.

And when I used the cent vs. dollar analogy, I wasn't referring to the labels but rather referring to collector interest in general. Some people like to collect first release labels, others like to collect cents. To each their own. You never see threads created that so vehemently attack another persons coin collecting interests, but god forbid that one pays crazy money for a label that they collect then these people must be crazy and stupid. Good day to you.

 

This can be said about many coin series' out there. For example, I used to have the number one IKE registry set on PCGS. Held that position for almost a year. I had many top pop coins where I was the only one who had them. I paid dearly to acquire them. Fast forward 5-6 years, I fell to number 4 on the registry and the values of most of my coins dropped because either higher grades were "discovered" or more of the same grades were discovered. All because a label said something on it.

So those collectors who wait and get the ANA label a year or two down the road for a fraction of the original price are they really collectors of the "label" or just smart collectors....maybe both.

 

Thank you for reinforcing my many time stated opinion that modern graded are a sink hole people keep throwing their money down. You had the number 1 set. And you spent a lot of money. On modern graded coins and it didn't work out. I posted an article written by q a while ago which only talks about the plummeting value of modern graded coins. You can talk about cherry picking sets until you are blue in the face. But with most 1974-1977 to date proof coins and most modern commemorative getting 90% < 69 or 70 those chasing the registry dream using moderns to do it seem to lose out.
I may be just a nobody collector but I listen to what q said. Then I look for myself. The real problem is moderns do not equate to values of old coins. The issue- almost every modern survives. And so there is a seemingly never ending supply of coins you can crack out of ogp and send in. You have populations of thousands and tens of thousands of graded moderns but with literally hundreds of thousands of coins in ogp just waiting to get into the game. Yes there are exceptions but the rule appears to be modern graded coins just lose money.

 

You completely missed my point. My point was...PCGS and NGC have VERY different definations of what falls into those categories. It's all about educating yourself on the TPGs. The same is true for these ANA labels. If one does not know what each individual TPG means when they put things on their label...it puts that person into a position of possibly not getting what they intended. I am not saying that attributes on the coin is the same thing as an ANA label...all I am saying is the different TPGs have VERY different meanings behind them (FBL with NGC means something very different than it does with PCGS...just like the ANA label does).

As far as the value of such labels...they may not add value to in your opinion (or mine for that matter), but they do to some...so they certainly aren't worthless.

 

I was talking to David Lisot, the video guy, about this very issue on late Saturday afternoon at ANA teardown. We were discussing what the "2nd biggest takeaway story" of this year's ANA show was. He surprised me, and I bet what he said will surprise a lot of the core people here. He said it is now clear to him that the old-timer collectors and dealers are missing what is drawing the new people to numismatics - modern coins and grade chasing. He opined that this new generation will not ever be taking advice from the old guard. They know what they like and darn it, they're going to do it, whether we sixty-something guys like it or not! I think he may be onto something, and we try to fight the label game these kids like at our, and not their peril. Ultimately, they decide and we do not! We will be "achieving ambient temperature" long before they do.

 

I'm 35, and I think these new labels, etc. are completely worthless to the hobby. These are made for flippers and not collectors. Don't give up yet, there are some of us younger generation that still enjoy this hobby for the history and beauty -- not just the number printed on a label in a plastic tomb.

 

The problem is...the majority of young collectors don't see it this way. The TPGs have very cleverly created a competition with their slabs. The registries are an extremely clever way to push their product. I think that is what it all goes back to...competition to have the "best" collection.

 

As the young collectors age and get their wits about them, I think they will grow out of this fad. The TPGs have been around for nearly 30 years, and the registries for nearly 15 years. There are still plenty of young collectors who aren't in it for the competitive collecting experience.