Worth reporting this Ebay account?? STAY AWAY!!!!

I 100% agree with the traffic lights. You cannot knowingly misrepresent what you are selling to wit a whizzed coin or 1922 Lincoln. However, that is in no way any effort to dictate pricing. Although I am presently loosing, I do not feel that any company, business, or person should have how the financially run their business dictated to them. How they represent their business is a different story.

 

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Different markets have different standards. Buying popcorn in a movie theater is not cheap. But charging $350 for a bucket of popcorn is unethical, not illegal. If anyone wants to hash this concept out then try to stay focused on ngc/pcgs coins so there are no more apple to orange comparisons please.

 

OK, lets talk about the same markets then. I am currently at a outdoor festival with food. One booth is selling drinks for $1, the other $3. Most everyone is buying from the $1 place, but a few do not know about them, so are buying the $3 drink. Unethical? And what profit is considered ethical, and what is unethical? When does it cross the line to a crime? Who gets to decide? You? The government?

 

Charging $500 for movie theater popcorn is in no way illegal or unethical. It is nothing more than a failed business model. Now, you don't want to talk about other than NGC, PCGS, etc., what about my 1948- Lincolns?

 

My point here is that everyone is taking a reported market value whether it be PCGS, NGC, CDN, etc. Those values are compiled using averages of the values of what people are buying and selling for. There are going to be outliers both high and low, thus the average. Fraud is a very specific term. Words have meaning, and this is no exception. I sell coins, and I personally don't always look at market value, but often base my price upon what I'm personally willing to sell the coin for. If I find a buyer, then good. If I don't, then I'll keep it. If I sell it for above "market" value, then so be it. If I sell it for below, then good for the buyer. However, fraud is a completely different matter.

 

I can't answer this question any better than RLM did, but I'll emphatically say that YOU as buyer OR seller get to decide.

 

I think we should all just grab a beer and call it a day.

 

I agree. Pricing is totally up to the seller. And what is legal is to set any price you want on an item. But there are limits. You can't call 911 and have the ambulance charge you $18,000. There really are market standards and limits. I have no legal issue with the first guy's ebay listing I posted. I honestly think it is legal but unethical. And this topic is what the op started this thread discussing. But in the second ebay listing I do think it is fraud because the lister is trying to use one item and sell it as the other.

The thread is discussing ethics. Ethics are as personal as religion or politics. We are talking about coin ethics and some will disagree with others.

 

If I have a 1914-S Lincoln bright red because it has been whizzed and I list it for $10,000 and say it has been whizzed, but I think it is pretty, that is entirely both legal and ethical IMO. And I think you will find most (all?) courts agree with me. If you don't believe me, just look at the not so valuable coins that have been listed on eBay for $1,000,000 and the likes. Not a single one has been pulled and if that were illegal in Nevada it really would have been - believe me. However, if I list that same coin for $10 and call it a MS66 full red problem free coin knowing otherwise, that is fraud.

 

Resolution: Pricing can't be unethical because pricing is subjective.

 

This subject comes up all too often, still, and early on, I was in the 'angered by the outrageous prices being asked' camp, much like the OP is. But, after a few years, the reality of it is, there just ain't a damn thing anyone can do, so I just move on from these listings/sellers. In the past, messages to sellers simply questioning whether it could be a listing error, they seem to always go unanswered, ultimately answering the question (as well as a glimpse into the seller's ethics). I agree, some sellers are just whacko in their asking prices, but, c'est la vie, nothing can be done about it. Not to mention, in the ebay world, if it WERE a reportable violation (whether an ebay infraction or legal infraction), we all know by now that ebay just won't do a damn thing (due to their disbanding the coin watchgroup).....frustrating as all hell, yes, something that can be done about it, no. Just not worth getting all riled up about something that you can't do anything about.

 

sellers can ask whatever they want for any coins, just as long as they don't misrepresent them. the sellers coins are clearly overpriced, don't buy them.

 

So how does one quantify eye-appeal in these situations?? Coins with dazzling eye-appeal often sell for prices that like-graded examples could never achieve... with coins, there is a large grey area here to play in, without being unethical...

I believe this was the answer...

 

Ebay is filled with overpriced coins. Why do you care? Just don't buy them.

 

I usually take the time to read all the posts on this subject, and usually learn something in doing so. Starts off usually with someone pointing out an ebay auction with a seller trying to sell a fake or copy, or a seller pricing an XF Morgan for $15000, etc. Usually its obvious in the first post or reply what's wrong or going on.

I also usually don't chime in much, because I'm no expert, and still very much learning the finer points of numistmatics.

But on this one though, it was different. I read all three pages of this discussion and I gotta say I'm kind of shaking my head\shruggin' shoulders. I'm wondering if anyone other than the OP actually went and looked at the 28D merc or 05 IHC that the OP used for the basis of his frustration?

I did...even took the time to look and compare the two examples to Photograde, and PCGS's Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection, Second Edition. and then looked at the gray sheet prices, Numismedia FMV, PCGS price guide and completed sold Ebay Auctions, for the grade range I felt the coins were in. I gotta say, all those sources supported the prices the seller got from both coins IMHO.

Even the Quarter that @Vegas Vic referenced, although in a basement slab and not really a pretty coin at all, could be argued that the seller was justified in what he asked and got for the coin. It could, if pushed, merit a technical grade of MS67, and if a price guide somewhere (http://www.numismedia.com/cgi-bin/c...&nmcode=14217600&guide=prices&guide2=pricesms) says that an MS67 is worth that kind of money, then the seller is justified and the buyer is as well.

The only thing left would be if they were counterfeit, I'm still a bit shaky on detecting counterfeit or doctored coins. So maybe that was the original beef, i dunno.

IMHO though, if a buyer whats a coin bad enough to purchase it at a certain price then the coin is worth that amount...to that buyer. I've spent money on some *UGLY* coins but it was because they were a "pretty" ugly to me and I wanted them, so I forked over the cash. Here's an example...





I probably gave too much for this coin, who's only real intrinsic value is the silver its made from, but I loved the look of the coin. As ugly as it is, its in my Dansco 7070, and it looks great....to me.

Just my two cents worth...open to any correction or criticism of my evaluations.

 

PT Barnum: "There's a sucker born every minute."

 

Abe Lincoln: "You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can fool all of the people all of the time."

 

How is not illegal?

 

How is I read that question?

 

How is illegal to sell at the price you want ?