I just got my first bottle of Verdi-care (Enjoy your Porsche, Bad Thad ). I have what may be a stupid question, but what do others use when soaking a coin. I'm not a cheapskate, nor do I begrudge Bad Thad his Porsche, but at the same time I don't want to waste money. Soaking a coin in a bowl seems like it uses a lot of Verdi-care for each coin. Can I soak more then one at a time to make use of the wasted space? BTW, I am attempting to use Verdi-care on late nineteenth century and early 20th century copper if the size of the coin matters.
not sure about this. I am wanting to know the results of this Verdi-care product. if it works. let me know. cause I have a Belgium copper coin I want to use it on. can we see before and after pics of the coins you do use Versdi-care on. thanks, Craig.
Just look around the house. Are there any plastic lids you can clean up? You could also go to a local store and buy one of those really small Tupperware containers. I think I used the plastic cap that went on the end of a poster tube (after I cleaned it). I generally don't leave mine overnight though. Normally, when I use the verdicare, I apply it with a q-tip, covering the entire coin and after five minutes or so, dab it off. Seems to work well in my experience.
I put it in one of those zip-lock coin pouches and seal it - with the coin and after use. I can actually reuse it later that way if it isn't too used.
I use 'artists plastic paint pots' . They come in different sizes, resealable hard plastic, flexible lids. Do not use them for acetone ( most dissolve, use glass containers for acetone) all I have ever bought do fine with Verdicare products. http://www.amazon.com/Loew-Cornell-...mpl_ac_10?ie=UTF8&refRID=12DA0JEM1D41DJH18SXT Here is a brand name group, but I have bought similar pack of 12 assorted in 99 cent store for .99
Do the coins that you're soaking have verdigris ? If not I'd leave them be . I love Verdicare for any copper coin with verdigris , but follow the directions and you'll be fine . Some excellent answers about what to use .
pill bottle that the coin fits into, can seal it so it does not spill, write on label with marker and toss in trash when finished...
Polyethylene containers are fine for acetone , or metal also, but I was trying ( perhaps poorly) to explain why the hard plastic 'cups' I showed were Ok for verdicare submersion , not to use them for similar activity with acetone. If I was soaking coins in acetone, I would prefer a clear glass container with a lid.
So far, my favorite is the cap from a coin tube. You can use a cap from the appropriate coin and there is minimal waste. I just spent two hours doing half of a 1920 India 1 cent coin. Not bad. I will let it dry and try to post some pictures tomorrow
There have been quite a few threads and posts showing before and after pics of coins treated with Verdi-Care. And yes the product works. But just like anything else how well it works has far more to do with the specific coin and its specific problems and characteristics than it does with the product. Verdi-Care is not some "miracle" in a bottle. If you have a coin that has some small spots of verdigris here and there yes it will probably remove them. But if you have a coin that is covered with verdigris, its not gonna do much. And don't forget that it does leave a coating on the coins treated with it. Also, people need to realize that verdigris damages the actual surface, the metal, of a coin. And once the verdigris is removed that damage is still there, that damage cannot be repaired. Verdi-Care is a product that prevents, or helps prevent future or additional damage by removing, in the inventor's own words, light to moderate verdigris.
You can use old cream bottles, but the real old ones had paper tops. I use old pill bottles. The old glass cups for old bed's post are good too. [they were used to keep bugs (bed bugs) from crawling up the bed post at night.] Some are large. I would never use a q tip on a coin, an eye dropper it better. The cotton will scratch the surface of the coin, I have done it -( Just rinse off and pat lightly to get the moisture off. and air dry. Good luck. I have not used Verdi-Care. I see the above about a Porsche 911-S Nice car, but expensive. It's made by Volkswagen, right. desertgem, you are correct.
Remember, the forum is trying to eliminate thread jumping, If you guys want to talk cars, start a new thread in general discussions!
VC is safe with any type of container but we generally recommend glass because it's the most inert and safest. To really conserver product, you can also put on just enough to cover the surface and then put a cap of some sort over it to slow evaporation. However, if soaking up to the 24 hour recommended maximum, it's best to use a sealed container.
It's more about the thickness/degree of the verdigris than the amount. The severity of the verdigris (light, moderate, heavy) is an important consideration in verdigris conservation because ALL verdigris removes metal during formation. The thicker the layer, the more damage has been done to the surfaces. Coins with heavy verdigris are generally not a good idea to work on since the underlying surfaces are usually badly pitted and damaged. VC will generally NOT remove such verdigris. The only time I've seen it worth addressing is with ancient coins where you either have an unrecognizable hunk of corroded metal or you have something you can ID and collect. For those types of coins more aggressive cleaning methods are required and VC will be of little help except perhaps as a protectant.
Detailed account of verdi-care test (long): Verdi-care trial (8/22/14 - 8/24/14) Methods I purchased one 60 ml bottle of Verdi-care from Wizard Coin Supply. The price was $15.99 plus 4.36 shipping, for a total cost of $20.35. This makes the cost of the product $0.34 cents/ml. Buying multiple bottles does not significantly reduced shipping costs per bottle (savings of ~$0.05 /per bottle for three bottles). The purchase was made on-line on 8/13/14 and the product was received on 8/21/14. The plastic bottle was wrapped in ~two layers of bubble wrap and packed in a padded shipping envelope, shipped via USPS First-class mail, and was received in good condition. I could find no lot number. I chose to test the product on a 1920 Straights Settlement 1 cent coin. This coin was chosen because it is in pretty good shape (VF, on a good day - low XF), had no apparent major environmental damage but was quite encrusted with dirt, and had some light to medium greenish material showing in a number of places. The latter appeared to be more associated with dirt build-up rather then affecting the metal per se. In addition, this coin has a bronze composition so it should be similar to other coins on which I intend to use the product (late 19th century, early 20th century British "copper"). Finally, the coin was not terribly valuable so there was a minimal financial impact if the trial went awry. For many years I have used 70% ethanol and pointed wooden sticks to remove heavy material from circulated coins. My goal was to remove all contaminants from the surface of coins (typically pre-1959 Lincoln cents with die varieties found while searching bulk purchases of coins). This was followed by immersion in acetone to eliminate moisture. Thus, I have extensive experience with "toothpick method" for removal of contaminant material. Initially, the coin was placed in the bottom of a 50 ml glass beaker containing ~500 µl of the product. A couple of extra drops were placed to the upward facing side to ensure complete immersion in the product. The coin then was allowed to soak for about 22 h. Although the beaker was covered, it was not air tight and thus it is unclear how much the product may have changed due to evaporation, oxidation, etc. I will conduct a future experiment to track weight loss over various periods of time. After soaking, the coin and as much Verdi-care as possible was transferred to the lid of a plastic quarter-sized coin tube (thanks bkozak33). I found that working in the beaker was untenable due to the depth of the beaker, thus requiring the transfer to a shallower container. Despite the inevitable loss of product the remained in the beaker (~ 10-15 µl), transfer to the plastic lid probably was cost effective due to the reduction in surface area across which the product would spread. The "toothpicks" were made by breaking round wooden applicator sticks (~ 2mm diameter, purchased from Fisher Scientific, ~ $6.00/ 200 sticks). In most cases the sticks break along the grain leaving two pieces, each which has a varying length of thin, rather flexible wood. This end then is trimmed to about a 45 degree angle point using scissors. This trimming was repeated at regular intervals (~ every 20-30 seconds) to maintain a point and to eliminate contaminants the adhered to the toothpick during probing (I have found that contaminants on the toothpicks are the most common source of scratches in the surface of a coin if the sticks are not trimmed regularly). I used about 6 applicator sticks on this coin. One limitation to using wooden applicator sticks is that, after the sticks are trimmed to a new point, they wick up a significant amount of solvent (this can actually be seen quite readily under the microscope). This wicking probably wastes about 25% of the total product used. Finding a "toothpick" that does not absorb the solvent would significantly reduce waste. In a future test, I will examine the feasibility of using plastic toothpicks. Actual work on the coin was done using a variable magnification boom-arm dissecting microscope at about 10X magnification with ring-light illumination from directly over the coin. I have no way to accurately measure the illumination intensity, but I was using relative low intensity lighting (about what would be achieved using a 60 W incandescent bulb at about 4 inches). Additional Verdi-care was added intermittently as needed. Removal of surface contaminants took about 3 1/2 hours of careful work with the toothpicks. After all of the initial work was completed, the coin was placed between multiple layers of paper napkins and a constant, relatively heavy, downward pressure was used to remove excess product. When examining the coin under moderate magnification (~20X) after removal of excess product, it was clear that a significant number of dirt particles remained scattered across the surface. I would expect that a "rinse" in clean Verdi-care after removal of the contaminated product that remained after cleaning would greatly improve the overall outcome by removing those remaining particles. I opted to roll a clean, dry cotton swab back and forth across the surface of the coin. This method was relatively successful at removing remaining dirt without "wasting" additional product, and without completely removing all of the remaining Verdi-care.. Results and interpretation: I decided to do only half of the coin rather than attempt before and after pictures with their inherent confounds of variations in lighting, angle etc. One caveat that should be taken into account is that the un-cleaned half of the coin was subjected to immersion in Verdi-care and the handling associated with cleaning the other half of the coin. As such, the extent of the encrusted dirt on the un-cleaned half probably was reduced slightly from the original conditions. I attempted to use only the probing method to dislodge dirt, however, at high magnification it is clear that I occasionally moved dirt grains horizontally along the surface of the coin as tiny scratches are visible at higher (25 - 40X) magnification. I deliberately chose a coin with a significant contaminant load. I felt that this would provide a reasonable test. It should be noted that there was no significant copper salts build-up and no significant incursion of copper salts into the surface of the coin. I found that, in general, Verdi-care performed as advertised: it appears have solubilized and loosened the encrusting dirt. That alone, however, did not significantly improve the appearance of the coin. Considerable additional effort was required to achieve a satisfactory outcome (note: this is not a dip type product). For those familiar with removing matrix from fossils, you will get the general idea. This is not necessarily an indictment of the product. Rather, it is my opinion of what reasonable expectations are as to what the product can achieve un-aided. As noted above, considerable effort was necessary to achieve a satisfactory outcome. Much of this effort, however, was directed at removing dirt from between the two strings of beading. It is likely that the effort required would have been greatly reduced on a coin with a less complex design. Verdi-care is advertised as not affecting the patina of the coin. I found this to be true. Although there were a few small areas of "clean metal" (scratches), they could be attributed to moving dirt horizontally during the toothpick probing One limitation that I found is associated with cost/benefit ratio. In total I used about 500 µl of product to achieve the results pictured. My estimation is that I would have used about 750-800 µl of product to clean and conserve the entire coin and the addition of a clean Verdi-care rinse would increase this amount to about 1.1 ml/ coin. This suggests that a 60 ml bottle would be sufficient to clean and conserve approximately 55 coins (assuming similar results on multiple coins, not necessarily a safe assumption) or about $0.37 cents per coin. Given the possibility of producing scratches on the surface, I would be reluctant to attempt this process on a very high value coin (others with more experience may reach different conclusions). On the other hand, the cost per coin probably would make using the product on common date coins not cost effective. There is probably a minimum coin value at which a "break-even" point could be achieved. However, for many collectors, coins have value beyond the pure financial aspects. In those cases, pure cost/benefit ratios may be of little importance, and thus the cost per coin is irrelevant (I tend to fall into this category). That having been said, at a lower cost per coin, I would be more likely to use the product more extensively, and ultimately purchase more on an absolute dollar basis. Overall, I was quite satisfied with the outcome. The product worked as advertised. Obviously, it is not a panacea, but then it doesn't claim to be. Nothing is going to restore the original surfaces. Would I use it again? - absolutely! This was my first attempt, and I would expect the outcomes to improve with additional experience. In the future, I may try an initial "pre-cleaning" in ethanol with dehydration in acetone, followed by a Verdi-care soak prior to the final steps of contaminant removal using Verdi-care.
Very good summary quarter-back! I appreciate the detail and thought put into the review. Very honestly written! Thanks
