Ancients: Classical Stlye Athenian Tetradrachm

Oh boy do I have a treat for you guys day. I just recieved by far my favorite coin that I own. It is a Classical Style Type A making it one of the first Classical Style Owls Struck. You can tell it is a Type A because the eye of Athena is Symetrical. On both type A and B the eye of Athena is Symetrical but to tell them apart Athena is smiling on A and frowning on B. My example shows her Smiling and man was I smiling when I recieved this coin. It is a beauty! Struck around 454-431 BC. It is about 17.28 grams and 22mm.



I know my pictures aren't the best but trust me this guy is amazing.

 

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Lucky, I would be smiling from here to china myself if I got one, especially that nice. Congrats.

 

HAHAHA Thank you!

 

My precioussssssssssssss.

 

Thanks for posting the Athens Tet! I took the opportunity to check Dr. Ilya Prokopov's Fake Ancient Coin Reports and did not find any matches. (But don't trust me as I am not expert at ancient counterfeit diagnostics).

 

I believe it is real

 

Me, too! The only thing wrong is the complete lack of a crest but that is better than the nose being off flan. It has better surfaces than many despite that one scratch and is definitely a coin worth owning.

 

I know its missing the crest. That would have been really nice. Its pretty much impossible to find a perfect coin so Ill take this one any day.

 

Very nice!!

 

A full crest would have added quite a few thousand to that coin. SO, I am not sure if you wish it had it or not.

A very nice owl, congrats!

 

Another magnificent coin, SD. Keep up the good work!

 

Very nice

 

Very nice tet, but also your research helps make the coin more alive. Glad you were able to narrow down the date range rather than just "ca. 449 - 409 BC" as one often sees published.

I also have an Athenian tet. Actually it's my 2nd one. I bought one when I just finished grad school & then stopped collecting Ancients and went into "modern European coins" (late 1400's - 1900). I sold most of my Ancients collection. In time I became re-interested in Ancients and about 2-3 years ago bought another Athenian tet. Would you be able to help me id which category it is if I post the pix?

 

Yeah I could help you. No problem

 

I hope that offer stands equally for the rest of us. Of course I have an opinion but there are a lot of variations on these that are a lot harder to force into A and B. All opinions are welcome but 'Nice Coin' is not an opinion in the sense being discussed here. Earlier and later or c. 330BC are opinions. I hope others here will post other Classical owls (I believe we have already covered Pi Styles here recently and established that none of us have pre-Classicals???). CT Ancients is a place of learning - at least for those who want it to be.

Equally, condition is a question of how much we value freedom from wear and how much we like pristine surfaces, noses, crests etc. etc. That is why I wrote my page on the Augustus & Agrippa / crocodile coins which are as hard to grade as as these owls. Your coin has smooth surfaces, rather little wing wear and equivalent on the highest part of the head of Athena but how much more of these would you accept to be rid of that reverse scratch? How much more to get some/all crest? How much difference would you make if your smile turned to a frown? These are all questions that drive the prices for such coins.

I'll guarantee that my crested dog was nowhere near a 'few thousand' but medoraman is right that taking a high grade coin and adding features lacked to make a 'perfect' coin would make a price with really obscene numbers. Such coins do exist - they are not cheap.

Below are my three 'Classical' owls (forgive me the test cuts, they bother me less than they do the market). I'm not asking grades and values but only opinions on placements on the timeline. (I will point out that the one with three cuts has about as perfect centering as is possible being touched on every side.) I would be interested in hearing not only the dates you might assign to each but what features led you to those numbers (smile style, eye, owl, depth of incuse etc. etc.). Even for those of us who will not have a whole 'parliament' of owls in our collection, there are enough photos published that we can study the series. In the 50-60 years of the 'Classical' style there were a lot of changes and many millions of coins. Add to that the 'other' mints of the East and Egypt only starting to be understood. There is much to learn.

 

I agree with everything that you said. And of course the offer stands for everyone. If you want my opinion on dating your Owls here it is. Your first one is the hardest for me to identify. Its pretty hard to tell but I think it could be a Type A. I say that because the eye of Athena for the most part looks symmetrical to me and she also looks to be smiling. The second one I think is a Type C. Athena's eye isnt symmetrical. On Type Cs the top right part of the eye tends to go up unlike the A and B where the top and bottom are pretty much perfectly symmetrical with each other. The last coin is my favorite. Its a Type B in my opinion. The symmetrical eye combined with the frown led me to that conclusion. I am in no way an expert nor do I claim to be but those are my opinions. Very nice coins Doug! I wouldnt mind owning them myself. Especially the third one.

 

I had intended to wait to post this new acquisition in a thread this weekend but I'll let it out early. I've been looking for the "right" early transitional owl for quite a while, specifically one of Starr Group V-A which has the most aesthetically pleasing owl in my eyes. This one fit the bill and has the added bonus of being high grade and a particularly well-centered reverse.



Attic, Athens; 465-462 BC, Tetradrachm, 16.82g. Starr Group. V. A. 166c (same reverse die). Head of Athena right, with frontal eye and smooth loop of hair over forehead, in crested Attic helmet ornamented with three olive leaves above visor and spiral palmette on bowl, wearing round earring with central boss / ΑΘΕ, owl with three tail feathers standing three-quarters right, olive sprig and crescent moon behind, outlines of square die visible. Struck in high relief and well centered. Exceptionally beautiful detail. EF

 

Beautiful coin. Maybe you could help me. Ive seen some Owls like this and I think they come even before Type A. Can you maybe explain these one to me?

 

Yes, you are correct. It is an early transitional owl, speculated to be minted between 465-462 BC (although the dating of these is somewhat imprecise). What is clear, however, is that it precedes the mass mintages of 449BC and later.

There are several stylistic differences from an art-historical perspective which can be gleaned from Athena's portrait but the easiest way to differentiate between the earlier groups and the mass emissions is the reverse tail feathers: on the earlier coins, they are shown as three separate tail feathers and on the widely minted coins, they are shown together.

The earliest Owl tetradrachms were minted in ca 512-490BC which are very archaic and crude looking, although historically interesting as they represent the start of the widest global trade currency of the ancient world.

Comparing the earliest to the subsequent coins, it is clear that the style was refined dramatically and quickly over the next ~50 years before the large emissions (during which it is speculated that nine million tetradrachms were produced).

 

Wow the was great help. Thank you. Ive seen some of these but they seem a lot rarer and go for a lot more money. Maybe someday I could own one.