When Does The Self-Policing Of This Coin-Collecting Hobby Begin?

I'll just say this. The smart dealers don't want to make their customers unhappy because they understand they're in the game for keeps. There's your policing angle, economics. The ones who don't know enough to be reasonable with their customers don't last very long with the Internet and these coin forums and all. You get hustled by one of those, well, it's an inconvenience, but that's what we have laws for.

 

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The coin posted is indeed a fake... The portrait is incorrect... Looks like a newer Chinese copy.

 

Two things

1. Only buy pcgs or ngc coins. Before you do buy them look up the serial number on their website to verify the coins. Be careful though as there are fake slabs so if anything looks funny just pass on that item.

2. Don't try to get something for nothing. I'll bet that you paid just a fraction of what that coin would be worth if it was real. If it is too good to be true it is not.

 

Or how about become very knowledgable? Isn't that kind of the point of collecting coins anyway, to become experts in them? I see posts here all of the time about how hard it is to tell fake ancients, when 99% of them I see are fake in five seconds or less. It's not that I am smart or otherwise gifted, it's because I study coins and have seen umpteen thousand.

The problem of using the tpg crutch is that someday they will make better fake slabs. If that is your only protection, then what will you do?

 

I agree. Personally, I think the TPGs do provide protection and a good service...especially when buying online. However, knowledge is still the key to collecting. I will utilize the TPGs...but depending on them is a mistake in my opinion.

 

TPG coins do not eliminate the possibility of counterfeits, damaged or cleaned coins, but they do reduce the odds greatly. If you were to buy 1000 PCGS coins off of the internet, I would expect less than 2 to be not what they indicate. We see a high percentage on here, because people post them as an oddity ~ Ah HaH! factor.

So purchasing such coins besides any guarantees offer a less chance of disappointment, but at a cost above garage sale bargains.

 

I think you are absolutely correct. My personal opinion is that one shouldn't use them as a crutch to avoid learning the necessary grading skills. However, they do have a certain safety built in...especially with online sales when you can't see the coin in person.

 

Interesting! It is my understanding that throughout the years of TPG existence there have been numerous "blind studies", which generally have exposed lack of consistency amongst graders.

Since it appears that published "blind" reports have been "hidden", as the May 26, 2003 document, I recommend that novice collectors view both the
Copyright 1977 Illustrated "OFFICIAL A.N.A. GRADING STANDARDS", and this site: http://bhcoinclub.org/editorials.htm

I personally recommend that these individuals spend time viewing auction images to determine disparities. It's believed they will find that seemingly unstandardized "market grading" still abounds with disregard for published organizational documentation.

I suggest buying the product rather than the container, as similar disparities to those being documented can still be seen.

"Caveat Emptor"

 

Greetings and a big thanks for the exposure to the input provided by others speaking to the grading services and the likes of the good and bad found on eBay. This was my first read and it opened my eyes even wider. Your bottom quote seems to summarize the involvement in this hobby as there seem to be a great many profiteers and those who would prey on those not knowledgeable.

Yes to the commentary speaking to "Buy The Book First" but it would almost suggest that the graders employed by these professional grading services.....didn't read it. Yes, I am being facetious, but to hear of the wide-spread differences of resulting grades are indeed disheartening.

It may take the collecting community to socialize its views like here on CoinTalk to request and possibly insist on a "grading committee with representatives from each organization in representation to get a "final grade".....and let the sponsoring firms get equal percentage of the fee; how novel would that be?

OK, I said enough and realize like most, there is a need to be careful, and cautious, and to look for recommendations of other numismatists.....to embrace the good honest coin dealers....and to avoid the not so good. Perhaps CoinTalk would be the forum for a list of dealers based on some criteria and endorsements, just trying to "think outside the box." Thanks a bunch for your great post.

 

By the ANA Code of Ethics for dealers, ignorance is no excuse. Two complaints are enough grounds to lose your ANA membership. I know that the ANA has a bad reputation here; but I would go to the ANA. I have never bought anything on eBay. I do not have a PayPal account.

 

I agree knowing what you are doing works best but between now and years from now when he is knowledgable he might want to buy a coin or two and this would be the safest way to do it

 

That is true sir. I was just pointing out that always the best solution is self education. TPG has been used by way too many lazy collectors as excuses as to why they don't need to learn to grade or authenticate coins. Some day really soon that crutch will fail them. But, short term you are correct. If you wish to buy an expensive coin, or a grade of coin where the grade is more important than the coin itself, and you are new and therefor do not have any coin skills, I would say buy slabbed. But if you are new why not just buy cheaper coins, and keep your money until you are knowledgable?