Sheldon & overton numbers

I'm trying to expand my knowledge of coins into early copper as I plan on dealing them very soon. Can someone explain these sheldon and overton numbers to me as well as some important knowledge that I should have regarding this area of numismatics. I don't know anything about Early coppers so any information would be helpful.

 

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Sheldon and Overton are mutually exclusive......

 

They each have a numbering system just like many other types of coins. What questions do you have about these coin types?

 

Sheldon, copper......and everything today. Overton, Draped and Bust halves......

 

So what would you like to know about the "Overton large cent numbers"?

Honest question: do you yet own any numismatic references (not the Red Book or Whitman "red book" titles), Josh? Oh, and it's always best to learn even the basics about coins before worrying about "dealing them"...

 

Oh dear. Put my foot into that one.......

 

I own a 2014 red book and a few grading books. As well as some business books. Thats about it.
Basically I'd like to know what these numbers mean how they work etc...

 

Josh? You're gonna have to 'spring' for some reference material.........

 

So are these numbers used to attribute different types of the same coin?

 

I wholeheartedly agree with Green: you NEED to invest in quality reference material, and with all due respect, do so before you even think about "dealing them". Good books can, and if you follow through with this desire to sell, will pay for themselves many, many times over. The coins will still be there however long down the road, so the best thing you can do for yourself if to learn now and worry about dealing later. You're not starting down a path that no one has traveled before, and I understand that you want to sell, but rushing into it without knowing your product is like driving blindfolded; it's sheer foolishness.

Google is your friend, but as a suggestion...

http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?a...r=william%20h.%20sheldon&title=penny%20whimsy

Also...

http://www.eacs.org/books.html


As for Overton numbers, while similar in purpose, are entirely different subject, and one that I would be happy to recommend links for as well.

 

That's one pricey book

 

Compared to blah mass-produced coin books, yes, but is not even close to the cost of some. Really, this is the low cost option for the earlier dates along with the (less than ideal) Newcomb book for the later, so take this as you will. Try to view it as an investment that will, especially if you do take the selling route, pay dividends down the road.

 

Your grading guides may not be of much use either. As far as I know, EAC has always had their own guide lines. Which I believe are being published soon. Your going to need books Josh, if your going to play with EAC's.

 

I need help. I'd appreciate it if you guys could teach me what I need to know. I mean that's 1 of the reasons we have cointalk right? to share numismatic knowledge with others

 

Why not join EAC? That's what they do. And they probably have tons of journal back issues that you can buy.

 

I don't have any spare cash right now. I just bought a lot of inventory so I can't buy anything until I sell some of my new inventory.

 

Yeah, I suppose you're right. The majority of the stuff I know is from a Mentor I have from when I lived in New Jersey. I think I'm going to look into the ANA Library.

 

Some of these books ( Overton for example) has been for sale on CT in the past, and usually few are willing to pay the price. ANA use to have the library borrowing for members. I did his way back in the day.

 

In order to effectively attribute early federal coinage (half cents, large cents, Bust half dimes, dimes, quarters, halves and dollars, owning the reference material is a necessity. As previously stated, the knowledge gained from these references is immeasurable, and like I said, you can't confidently attribute the above coins without them.

Anyway, now that I've said that, here is my explanation to the best of my ability in regards to the questions you asked:

Early federal coinage - copper, silver, and gold - were all struck using hand engraved/punched dies. Because each die's letter and numbers were punched in individually and not with a hub (for the most part, there was some early experimentation with hubbing the entire die), they all have there own specific characteristics that make them distinguishable from the other dies that were used in striking that specific denomination.

Here's an example:

Say it's 1831, a half dollar obverse die (we'll call it Obverse 1) and a half dollar reverse die (we'll call it Reverse A) are paired, creating what is referred to as a die marriage. If Reverse A were to break, it may be replaced with a new reverse die (we'll call it Reverse B), thus creating a new die marriage (Obv 1 and Rev B).

Researchers many year later, such as William Sheldon (large cents) and Al Overton (draped and capped bust half dollars), identified these dies by studying the characteristic on survivng coins. When they identified a unique die marriage (say Obv 1 and Rev A) it was assigned a number, like Overton 101, and the identifying characteristic of the dies were described. The next unique pair of dies (Obv 1 and Rev B) were assigned another number, like Overton 102. The researchers them published books with this information, and they are now used to attribute the die marriage of a particular coin.

So if you wanted to attributed an 1831 half dollar, you would flip to the 1831 of Al Overton's book and find the obverse and reverse dies that match you coin. The pair of die would have an Overton number and this is the number the describes the die marriage of you coin. Some die marriages are rare, some are common. As you know, some collectors, collect coins based on their die marriages, a few even try to collect them all.

This is the best description I could give for what a die marriage is and how there are related to the numbers you asked about. If anyone has any corrections, please let me know, so as to make this post as accurate as possible.

Also, here is a quick list of the books you will need to attribute the coins. Be warned, many are very expensive 100+, but such is the nature of numismatic literature.

EAC (Early American Coppers) has an excellent overview of Early Copper literature here: http://www.eacs.org/books.html

Bust Half Dimes: Federal Half Dimes by Logan and McCloskey, coins are attibuted to LM #, hard to find, $100+.

Bust Dimes: Early United States Dimes by Davis, et. al. coins are attributed to JR #, hard to find, $200+. Cheap, JRCS authorized photocopies are available.

Bust Quarters: Early United States Quarters by Tompkins or Early Quarter Dollars of the United States Mint, by Rea et. al. Coins are attributed to B (Browning) #. Excellent references. Both about $80, easy to find.

Bust Half Dollars: Early Half Dollars by Overton, 3rd edition or later. Coins are attributed to O (Overton) #. 4th and 5th are easy to find, about $70.

Bust Dollars: Books available by Jules Reiver, and Bowers/Brockart (sp?)

This is not a comprehensive list, detailed studies, journals and more are available but this is a very good start. That's all I've got for tonight, hope it helps.

Jesse