Ragusa, Sicily 1770 1 Tallero (Ducat Et Sem)

Purely for the sake of discussion and understanding, I'd like to mention a few things. And everybody, please reply with your thoughts as well.

For instance, adjustment marks were made with a file. That was the method. Now there are many kinds of files, all different sizes and shapes, with many different kinds or shapes of blades or teeth cut into them. But every file, only has 1 single kind/size of teeth or blades cut into them. Every tooth on the file is always the same size. And those teeth are always cut into a uniform pattern or design. And when a file is used on a piece of metal, they always cut parallel lines in that metal, every single time. This is the nature of files and how they are made.

Now the file itself may only be a quarter of an inch wide, or a half inch, or an inch, or even larger on big ones. But whatever size the file is it is going to cut in a pattern that same size. A quarter inch file cuts a pattern a quarter of an inch wide. And every line it cuts in the metal it is being used on will be exactly the same width and exactly the same depth, assuming the metal is flat of course.

Now take a look at the coin that Matt posted. Anywhere on that coin, do you see even 1 place where there is a given sized pattern of cuts where the lines are parallel and where the cut lines are the same width as those beside them ?

I do not. I see cut lines of many different widths and depths, and they are right beside each other. And they run in all sorts of different directions with various starts and stops.

The point I am getting to is this, I don't see any way that file of any size shape or design could have been used on this coin. In some places there is just a single cut line, in others 2, in yet others 3. But yet none of them are the same width, the same shape, parallel to those beside them, or even the same depth. And no I don't mean a difference in depth between the devices and the fields. I mean a difference of depth in material in the same place. None of the lines on this coin have the characteristics of what a file would create if a file were used on the coin, either before, or after the strike.

And speaking of that, if a planchet is adjusted for weight by using a file on it to remove a small amount of metal. When that planchet is struck the cuts lines in the devices are those that are filled either completely or partially because the metal that forms the devices flows into the recesses of the die. And the lines that end up in the field areas of the coin, those lines will change too, but to a lesser degree than those in the devices because the metal in the field areas flows less.

But if a coin is adjusted for weight after the strike then of course the lines in the devices will be the deepest because the devices are the high points. And the lines in the field will be shallow because the cutting teeth of the file just barely touch the fields if at all. And the cut lines in the devices will usually have sharp, well defined edges while those in the fields will not.

So now considering all of this, look at that coin and tell me what you think.

 

That's just it, they were extremely regular. But I understand the reasoning for your comment.

Files have existed since 2000-1500 BC. The worked just the same then as they do today. And by 400 AD they were no different than they are today. For over 2000 years files were hand made, and made with great care so that they would function as the tools that they are. You see, a file with irregular teeth would not function properly, it would not do the job it was intended to do, which was to cut metal. And cut it in such a way so that it could be a finished product.

By 1750 some files were being made by machine, with many others continuing to be made by hand. By 1800, most files were made by machine. But even today, many files are still made by hand.

Now how do I know all of this ? Because I have taken the time to learn. I spent the early part of my life working with my hands so I had to know tools and how to use them. And given my natural curiosity I had this drive to learn many different things. My earliest tools were all hand tools of course, I was given them as a child by my grandfather, still own some of them today. My grandfather was born in 1903, and one of the tools he passed on to me was a file that he had had since he was a child. That file is well over 150 years old. And it looks exactly like one you would buy in a store today.

The point is what I said in my comments above is all quite true. But nobody has to take my word for it, it's easy enough to look it up and see for yourself.

Now given that, what are your thoughts on that coin ?

And yes Matt, I know all too well what the TPGs say. What I am asking people to do is to use their common sense after being given a little knowledge about what a file is, how it was made, and how it functioned as a tool.