1964 peace dollar coin value?

I believe that this conversation/letter has been debunked since its well documented by employees of the US Mint at Denver that the coins NEVER made it to the Cashiers office for release to anybody. Mint Employee or not.

I'll even include the link:

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=886005

 

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How did they end up in Washington? Evidence/Records in Roger Burdette's Peace Dollar Book indicate that the two pieces that ended up in Washington originated from the 30 test strikes done at the Philadelphia Mint. Not Denver.

 

I;ve heard some say that the piece that went on sale was NOT the Farouk piece. From what I recall, Farouk commonly lacquered all his coins and the piece that was sold had not been lacquered.

BUT, its neither here nor there with regard to the 1964-D Peace Dollars and simply not even a comparable coin as one made it through the counting process and quite possibly the cashiers office while the other never left the isolated and secured press room in Denver.

 

I made the "1965" over-strikes for three reasons:

1) This year is the 50th anniversary of 1964.
2) The original "1964" Peace dollars were struck in May of 1965.
3) I wanted to do a 50th anniversary piece, but I didn't want to make more "1964-D" over-strikes, so I did "1965-D" instead.

 

My opinion of this story is that it is somebody's foggy recollection that got confused with the new 1964-D Kennedy Half Dollars, which did make it to the Denver Mint cashier and so some of those were available to employees.

 

The Washington DC coins were probably minted in Philadelphia as initial test pieces. There is no compelling evidence that any 1964-D Peace Dollars ever left the Denver Mint. If you have any such actual evidence, post it.

That bulletin is the US Treasury's final word on the 1964 Peace Dollars. Literally the last sentence of that bulletin states that the coins "were never issued".

Because, as I said, the Washington DC coins were minted in Philadelphia.

 

A little part of me wishes you had done it in clad. Since, 1965 was the first year of clad coinage...I wonder what a 1965 Peace Dollar in clad would have looked like. However, much like the Ike Dollars...I'll bet that would have been quite a challenge to produce.

 

My understanding is that all the existing 1933 Double Eagles (with the exception of 2 that were saved by the government) were stolen. They were never monetized so therefore could never be bought. The story with the Farouk piece is the US government mistakenly granted an export license for it and thus there was a "legal" paper trail.

 

The way I read the last part of this is the government had a strong feeling some of the pieces did get out .

 

One thing I do know from working for Americans government everyone keeps a keepsake . Legal or Illegal . Just about. 1-3 years ago they found 500pd bomb in government workers barn.





1933 Gold rumored were bad public was thinking your gold rings jewelry would be taken by government workers. Rumors were hot topics.
America mint ran like clockwork 12/1932 mint was striking 20.00 gold coins like they do yearly so monitized semi but handy for a worker to pickup a few.. 20.00 was a lot of money .

 

That is missing the point and the very heart of Daniel's processes since every overstruck coin he produces is from a coin of regular issue and no CnClad Dollars were struck in 1965.

 

Unlike paper notes which literally have no value, coins at the time did not have to be "monetized" as these were made by the United States Mint under the guidance of the US Treasury department.

Federal Reserve Notes, on the other hand, DO have to be monetized by the US Government since they represent a promissory NOTE which is collectible by the Federal Reserve Bank which happens to be a privately held institution whose inly relationship with the Federal Government is that the government is the solitary customer. In short, for every billion one dollar notes printed, the Federal Government has to agree to "borrow" that amount from the Federal Reserve Bank before the notes can be issued.

BTW, the Federal Reserve Bank is as much a government entity as Federal Express of Federal Mogul.

The "monetization" of the 1933 Saint sold at auction was more or less a "thumbing of the nose" gesture at the parties involved since the governments hands were literally tied at having to sell the coin which they wanted to keep. The granting of the export permit more or less legalized the coin. An act of frustration if you will.

At least, that's what I understand.

 

Now this is a thread

Is there a link to sources for these, especially with date information:

?
What was the date by which destruction was complete and what date was the statement made?
and

What was the date the coins were in DC?

and

At what date?

and

What is his proof of these 30 test strikes? When were they made? What came of the other 28?

The 73 letter only mentions trial strikes at Denver. If they were minted in Philly would they be sans mintmark?

 

The Federal Reserve (System ) and the 12 Federal Reserve Banks are two different animals.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm

 

I'm not missing the point, I know what he was doing. What I was saying is...it might be cool to see what would have happened had they minted them into the Clad era...which started in 1965. There were no silver dollars minted dated 1965. Had they minted dollars dated 1965...they could have been 40% silver or they could be clad. All I was saying is, it would neat to see the Peace design in clad...at least I think it would be.

I don't think this is completely accurate. Since these coins were never issued, they are not legal tender. If you look at how the sale price of the 1933 Double Eagle broke down...it includes $20 to the Treasury to monetize the coin.

Here is how the $7,590,020.00 final price broke down:

$6,600,000.00 final sales price ($3.3 million to the US Treasury and $3.3million to S. Fenton)
$990,000 buyers premium (15% of final bid price)
$20 to monetize the coin (to the US Treasury)

 

Sorry but when I read:

"The 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks, which were established by the Congress as the operating arms of the nation's central banking system." (o.e. The Federal Reserve System)

I only assume that these "12 Banks" are required as distribution points for Federal Reserve coins/currency. These "banks" used to be accessible by the public but those days are long gone.

Whether they are owned by the same folks in charge of the Federal Reserve Bank (system as an entity) or not is immaterial as the fact that this bank is NOT the Federal Government is the point.

 

Never Issued and monetized are two different things and this $20 charge to "monetize" the coin is pure BS.

 

That is what I have read on a couple different websites about the same of that coin.

 

Looking up the term "monetize" shows:

mon·e·tize
/ˈmɒnɪˌtaɪz, ˈmʌn-/ Show IPA
verb (used with object), mon·e·tized, mon·e·tiz·ing.
1. to legalize as money.
2. to coin into money: to monetize gold.
3. to give the character of money to.
4. Economics . to convert (a debt, especially the national debt) into currency, especially by issuing government securities or notes.

I take this to mean that, since paper has no intrinsic value, paper notes "must be monetized" whereas coins which have intrinsic PM value do not need to be monetized. But then that could be all wet as well.

Folks have totally forgotten the purpose behind coins in that they've been brainwashed into believing that something which has no value (notes and coins) actually has value (money).

Coins were necessary by the young government as a mean of promoting a strong economy for the country to encourage growth and investment. Typical transactions, historically speaking, were completed with precious metals (i.e. gold, silver, copper) Before the United States Mint came into existence, the coins utilized were, again, of gold/silver/copper and from foreign countries. Those foreign countries assayed their coins for a correct monetary value of the gold or silver within the coin. A need for an official United States coin was definitely needed.

The creation of the coins had everything to do with the promise that the US Government insured that a proper amount of gold or silver was in every coin which, BTW, was still based upon a precious metal's intrinsic value. (Perhaps one reason that dollar coins were so large?)

At anyrate, prior to the country coming off of the gold and silver standards, it was the precious metal value within the coin which gave it its actual value. The value of a coin today, is only a "promise" of the value (wink wink). In other words, its worth a dollar because we say its worth a dollar. This is monetization.

The $20 value of the double eagles was based upon the value of the gold within the coin, not simply because the government said so and this was a world wide acceptance of gold and silver as monetary vehicles.

All that changed in 1933 but I do not for 1 second believe that these $20 gold pieces had to be "monetized" which is a BS word dreamt up by the Federal Reserve Bank to give value to a piece of paper.

And that's all I'm gonna say.

 

My understanding is this...and they used the word "monetize" to define what they did. I don't want to argue semantics. That is the word they used when the coin was sold in 2002.

Because the coin was never issued, it was not legal tender. It has nothing to do with the intrinsic value of the metal. It has more to do with the Federal Government ledger being out of balance (I agree, it's dumb because of our Trillions of dollars of debt to worry about $20). But, their view was $20 was stolen from the US government. Because it was stolen, it technically was not issued legal tender. In the eyes of the US Government the coin had no legal tender value. When the coin was sold, it was demanded by the US Government that the buyer compensate the government for that stolen face value. By doing so, the coin would become legal tender.

Again, that had nothing to do with the intrinsic value of the piece but it was about the legal tender status according to the US Government. Was it stupid and petty...yes. But, that is what they did.

You can argue with me until you are blue in the face over intrinsic value and semantics...but this is what happened.